Help!

[Anonymous]

I have a daughter who has been in the Marines for five years, but is currently dealing with a group of men who don't think women should be marines. This is a difficult time right now especially at the holidays, and she is just discouraged and disheartened by it. When she joined she thought it was "the few, and the proud", but sometimes I think I would be ashamed if they were my sons. She needs a little support, encouragement, and maybe some advise. Got any thoughts to share? Up until about 18 months ago I think the marines would have been a career, but now we are just counting the days.

dcb1221@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

Deb,

That is awful...is it just the duty station? I've heard the same and I've heard opposite to so I'm sure it's not widespread in the Corps.

The other thing is, harassment is against Marine Corps policy and is not tolerated. Has she complained about it? Or does she feel it would make it worse? If she did and it has that's against the law also-retaliation. I work for employment lawyers so I know a little bit about it on the civilian side...

Tell her to hang in there--we support her from afar!

Semper Fi, Monika Anderson


:
: I have a daughter who has been in the Marines for five years, but is
: currently dealing with a group of men who don't think women should be
: marines. This is a difficult time right now especially at the holidays,
: and she is just discouraged and disheartened by it. When she joined she
: thought it was "the few, and the proud", but sometimes I think I
: would be ashamed if they were my sons. She needs a little support,
: encouragement, and maybe some advise. Got any thoughts to share? Up until
: about 18 months ago I think the marines would have been a career, but now
: we are just counting the days.


zuma50@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

: I have a daughter who has been in the Marines for five years, but is
: currently dealing with a group of men who don't think women should be
: marines. This is a difficult time right now especially at the holidays,
: and she is just discouraged and disheartened by it. When she joined she
: thought it was "the few, and the proud", but sometimes I think I
: would be ashamed if they were my sons. She needs a little support,
: encouragement, and maybe some advise. Got any thoughts to share? Up until
: about 18 months ago I think the marines would have been a career, but now
: we are just counting the days.


Jernigb@aol.com

[Anonymous]

:I went through the same thing years ago. Funny, how some things never change. I was in during the Vietnam era (67-70; some of the things that happened to me also happened in the civilian and civil service sectors. She should examine her options. Is the situation intolerable to the point she wants to take action? Can she hack it until the end of her tour? Can she request a transfer? It depends on what kind of situation she is in. If she is being sexually or mentally abused,or considers herself to be in danger, there are formal channels for redress. If she is dealing with a bunch of neanderthals, she could just consider the source and ignore them if they will let her. (Sometimes they won't; I've known men to sabotage work product, etc.) Men do this sort of thing because they think can get by with it, and as long as she tolerates the situation they will continue to do so. I always dealt with these kinds of situations by letting them know I was no pushover and could and would take action. As the only woman at my workplace, most times, I could diffuse the situation by ignoring their comments and going on with my work or politely telling them I didn't hear what they said and would they mind repeating what they said (they were usually too embarassed to repeat the nastier crap). I think she needs to tell someone that this type of thing is happening. In the old days, we had a company office and could request to see the First Sergeant. If that is still the case, that's where I would go, and let the First Sergeant offer advice.


Tell her that as long as there have been women in male-dominated societies, this sort of crap goes on. Thousands of women have managed, but tolerating ugliness just perpetuates it.

Women are essential to all the services now and now matter how much sensitivity training some men receive, they just don't understand that women are here to stay. I sometimes wanted to tell them that if all it took to get rid of women was to tell us they didn't want us, harass us, and just be asses in general, wouldn't we have disappeared by now. After all thousands of macho-type men came along before they did, and if those big, bad marines couldn't do it, what makes them think they can. (By the way, I saw the post where someone referred to John Wayne as a good thing. I'm old enough to remember a quote from him that went something like this: I don't care if a woman wants to get out of the house and work, that's fine, just as long as she has dinner on the table for me when I get home. Can't really say that's very supportive.)

I have a daughter who has been in the Marines for five years, but is
: currently dealing with a group of men who don't think women should be
: marines. This is a difficult time right now especially at the holidays,
: and she is just discouraged and disheartened by it. When she joined she
: thought it was "the few, and the proud", but sometimes I think I
: would be ashamed if they were my sons. She needs a little support,
: encouragement, and maybe some advise. Got any thoughts to share? Up until
: about 18 months ago I think the marines would have been a career, but now
: we are just counting the days.

Jernigb@aol.com

[Anonymous]

:I'm really curious to discover that so many of the women that respond to questions re enlistment, initial testing, qualification criteria, medical problems, Marine Killer (?), etc., have no advice to give to this concerned mother. What is the climate for woman in the Marine Corps today? Are all the equality issues a thing of the past. I'm not talking about harassment per se, rather: recognition, promotions, housing, assignments, two-Marine marriages, and pregnancy. If I were a potential recruit/officer candidate, I would want to know what happens after OCS and boot camp as well, as I would be spending a lot more time in the Corps than in training. What are the percentages of women who serve their full enlistment after training (it used to be very low). How many women in the top officer/enlisted ranks. What can I except in my workplace and quarters. What do I have to to prepare for promotion. What happens afterwards?


I have a daughter who has been in the Marines for five years, but is
: currently dealing with a group of men who don't think women should be
: marines. This is a difficult time right now especially at the holidays,
: and she is just discouraged and disheartened by it. When she joined she
: thought it was "the few, and the proud", but sometimes I think I
: would be ashamed if they were my sons. She needs a little support,
: encouragement, and maybe some advise. Got any thoughts to share? Up until
: about 18 months ago I think the marines would have been a career, but now
: we are just counting the days.

Jernigb@aol.com

[Anonymous]

:I'm really curious to discover that so many of the women that respond to questions re enlistment, initial testing, qualification criteria, medical problems, Marine Killer (?), etc., have no advice to give to this concerned mother. What is the climate for woman in the Marine Corps today? Are all the equality issues a thing of the past. I'm not talking about harassment per se, rather: recognition, promotions, housing, assignments, two-Marine marriages, and pregnancy. If I were a potential recruit/officer candidate, I would want to know what happens after OCS and boot camp as well, as I would be spending a lot more time in the Corps than in training. What are the percentages of women who serve their full enlistment after training (it used to be very low). How many women in the top officer/enlisted ranks. What can I except in my workplace and quarters. What do I have to to prepare for promotion. Can I exept to be harassed? How do I handle it. What happens afterwards?


I have a daughter who has been in the Marines for five years, but is
: currently dealing with a group of men who don't think women should be
: marines. This is a difficult time right now especially at the holidays,
: and she is just discouraged and disheartened by it. When she joined she
: thought it was "the few, and the proud", but sometimes I think I
: would be ashamed if they were my sons. She needs a little support,
: encouragement, and maybe some advise. Got any thoughts to share? Up until
: about 18 months ago I think the marines would have been a career, but now
: we are just counting the days.

Jernigb@aol.com

[Anonymous]

Barbara, I'm surprised that since your daughter has been in the Corps for 5 years, I think you said, that you don't already have the answers to your questions about life as a Marine regarding promotions, housing, etc. Perhaps you or she could give us some advice in that respect, since you've already been exposed to that?

I'm not that concerned about harassment myself because I am a paralegal that works for employment lawyers and I would take action against anyone who tried to pull that garbage on me. I'm sorry your daughter is going thru what she is, but she should really do something about it.

The reason many of us focus on questions about boot camp, etc etc is because many of us have either just sworn in or are on our way to boot camp. And when you're in that position, boot camp is what you focus on. It's the first, intial, unkown and frightening test...Being as we are fresh in the middle of the process, we have answers to those questions. We are not Marines yet, so we have fewer answers to those kinds of questions. Since my husband was a Marine, I have less questions than most about what life as a Marine is like.

There are not that many current or former Woman Marines that post here, but perhaps they could address the rest of your questions better than I can.

Semper Fi, M. Anderson



zuma50@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

FYI Everyone:

www.sgtmoms.com is a website for military families that you may find useful regarding topics on military life.

S/F, M.A.

zuma50@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

I was in the Marine Corps from May 1968 until Sept. 1976 when I received a medical disability discharge.

I did my training at Parris Island, SC, Platoon 7-A. I stayed at PI for school than went to Headquarters Marine Corps and worked at the Navy Annex. From there I went to Camp Pendleton, CA. than to Futema,Okinawa, Japan. We were rear support for the troops in Vietnam in Okinawa. After a stint there I was sent back to Headquarters Marine Corps, worked for Director of Women Marines for a few months than sent to DACOWITS at the Pentagon, than back to HQMC and worked for a bunch of Colonels. I also in that time frame attended NCO Academy in Quantico, NBC School at Camp Kue, Okinawa (only women marine- only women as a matter of fact to ever go there during the Vietnam War).

I'm bringing all of this up to make it very obvious that I was in a male only dominated place, unlike what it is today in the military.

I didn't take crap from the male marines than and I surely wouldn't now if I were still in. I had a GySgt. who tried to make my life a living hell in Okinawa. I took care of his butt! IG came thru and I requested a conference and gave them a detailed notebook of dates, times, etc of his harrassment towards me. He got his ass shipped back to the states very quickly. I don't know what kind of discipline if any they gave him but they got him out of there.

But than again I was a Sergeant and I was in charge of alot of the male Marines so they really didn't give me much stuff. If I gave them an order they followed it, if they didn't I'd make sure they got discipled for it.

Point I'm trying to make today the military women have so many more avenues than we did when we were in to report these jerks and they should do so.

Tell your daughter to keep her chin up, start keeping a record of trans gressions done towards her and other females. Dang it! Tell her to invest in a small voice-activated recording machine and carry it with her at work and where ever so she'll have the goods on them. Wish they had those when I was in sure would have saved me alot of writing in my little red book. :-)

What rank is your daughter? Where is she stationed now? Tell her to email me if she wants to if she has internet access or she can write me at P.O. Box 113, Hinesville, GA. 31310 My email address is frenchiestm@clds.net.



frenchiestm@clds.net

[Anonymous]

: First, it is great to see more former Women Marines here. Second, Carol you're a riot!! Yes boot camp for men was shortened during part of the Vietnam Conflict. I also believe it was 9 weeks. Parris Island was great for me as well. One of my DI's heard me telling a joke during a shower, LOL, and from then on I had to report to the quarterdeck every morning to tell her the joke of the day. I had to get my friends and family to send them to me, and other recruits would tell them to me also. If she didn't think it was funny enough I would push "until she got tired" (ever heard that phrase before). Did your platoon go to Rifle range? So much changes as time goes on. I went through in 1990 and we did not do some of the things they do now. The other day someone said something about MCT. Do females go there now (that question is probably for Anderson)? As far as sexual harrassment goes, sometimes it is harder to report than you think. In 1991 I worked for a Captain who was in Saudi when I arrived at MALS-26 in Jacksonville, NC. I was an Ordnance Tech and really good at what I did. He came back and IMMEDIATELY placed me in the office. I can't say why because I couldn't even type!!! One day (not realizing he was in the office) I mentioned to a co-worker that I really didn't understand why I was working in the offie. His reply, "Because I was a female in his God____ Marine Corps." I did complain, and I was not the only one but he was merely PCS'ed (given a change of duty stations). Sadly, I know that there were many other females who dealt with him. But, I am glad to report that I have been in the service for 10 years now and that is the only negative incident!! It is not all-consuming and it is possible to live through it. Barbara, I agree with the person who said your daughter should ask for a change of station. If this is not possible tell her to look for a billet position( this will remove her from the direct line of fire and has worked well for some of my friends).Good luck to her. As far as two- Marine families my husband and I met in Millington Tennesse (no, we didn't get married there, it was against the rules). But, in MALS-26 I knew of5 other couples and that was only who I knew in one squadron. The only thing was my husband and I were in the same MOS so before they let us get married one of us had to find something else to do (I ended up working for a new program that needed people). It turns out okay for most people. Once again I really enjoy this site.


stevens511@aol.com

[Anonymous]

: It was Deborah's daughter who is the current Marine for whom she was requesting advice. I'm the old former Marine.


I just felt such sympathy for a woman who is still experiencing needless crap after so many years. So many of us former WM's (that was how they referred to us back in the stone age) had to endure unpleasant situations because there were so few of us at most duty stations that we really didn't know what to do. We didn't complain because we were afraid of what might happen.

I'm happy to know there are venues for reporting such situations now. There probably was back then, but I think most of us just took it as part of Marine Corps life in and out of the workplace.

Also, I think some of us oldtimers like to hear about what is new today. Remember back in the Vietnam era and before, there were a lot of restrictions on women that do not exist today. As one lady said, we had liberty cards, dress codes, couldn't get pregnant, limited MOS's and duty stations, etc., so we're interested in learning how far women have progressed. Some of us really were trailblazers in certain career fields and would like to think we did some good and that women today benefit from our past work. I'm heartened to see such positive attitudes presented by prospective recruits and would also like to hear more from current Marines. We could all benefit from a support network and to hear from women who can say we've been there and this is how we did it then (and from women who can tell us how the present day Corps operates).

Barbara, I'm surprised that since your daughter has been in the Corps for 5
: years, I think you said, that you don't already have the answers to your
: questions about life as a Marine regarding promotions, housing, etc.
: Perhaps you or she could give us some advice in that respect, since you've
: already been exposed to that?
:
: I'm not that concerned about harassment myself because I am a paralegal that
: works for employment lawyers and I would take action against anyone who
: tried to pull that garbage on me. I'm sorry your daughter is going thru
: what she is, but she should really do something about it.
:
: The reason many of us focus on questions about boot camp, etc etc is because
: many of us have either just sworn in or are on our way to boot camp. And
: when you're in that position, boot camp is what you focus on. It's the
: first, intial, unkown and frightening test...Being as we are fresh in the
: middle of the process, we have answers to those questions. We are not
: Marines yet, so we have fewer answers to those kinds of questions. Since
: my husband was a Marine, I have less questions than most about what life
: as a Marine is like.
:
: There are not that many current or former Woman Marines that post here, but
: perhaps they could address the rest of your questions better than I can.
:
: Semper Fi, M. Anderson

Jernigb@aol.com

[Anonymous]

Carol, Way to go. You have brought to life so many of the former WMs that have been lurking here for some time. Your comments re: sneaking between A and B platoons sounded all too familiar. We did the same thing, usually with the help of whomever had the duty during the late evening hours. Do you remember going from window to window throughout the squad bay and bathroom and laundry room and shower room, hour after hour with the flashlight? This is usually when we did our "midnight requistions" for each others sharply starched trousers and shirts.

Your comments regarding the harrassment was right on. Anyone being harrassed should not feel bad about going to the top (through the chain of command, if possible) with any problems. She (or he) should feel free to seek miltary counsel anytime they feel threatened.

I too was in during the end of the Vietnam era (Platoon 11-A, Nov 71-Jan 72) and had a great time in boot camp. Your uniform descriptions were exactly what we wore. But you forgot those lovely little light blue pt skirt/short thingys! My big problem was I was forever getting gigged for a dirty toothbrush! During inspection the Sgt was always finding toothpaste in it. No matter how hard I cleaned it. So, one day we all made a trip to the PX together I bought a new one and a new case. I continued to use the old one. The next inspection I hid the old brush and case and I put the brand new one and the brand new case where they were supposed to be the trunk lid (it was a J-O-B inspection) and sure enough she claimed to have found toothpaste on my never-used tooth brush!! And I was gigged AGAIN!!-- Funny how we remember all these trivial things after so many years.

By the way I especially enjoyed your posting regarding the possibility of typos. I KNEW m.anderson was going to pick up on the 22 week versus 12 week male marine boot camp typo. And I won't say any more on that right now;}

june

june@humonc.wisc.edu

[Anonymous]

June:

I REALLY REALLY hope we have as much fun in boot camp as you all did--I Love reading these posts--thanks for breathing life into the msg board again!

(Yes, I'm a stickler for "being correct"...hopefully it will serve me well at PI... ;o) )

S/F:

M.A.



zuma50@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

Your uniform descriptions were exactly


: what we wore. But you forgot those lovely little light blue pt skirt/short
: thingys!


Oh I forgot those!!! I wasn't very athletic when I went in and had problems running that 3/4 mile in due time so the Sgt would paste me so I could pass it. I did good on the sprint thingy or whatever it was called, you know you ran with a stick and passed it to the next person. I did that pretty well. Never had gym in my high school but I did learn to jog and run after bootcamp to the point I did it just about everyday at HDQRs MC, D.C.

My big problem was I was forever getting gigged for a dirty
: toothbrush!

Speaking of toothbrushes did y'all ever have a G.I. party and made to get on your hands and knees and use a toothbrush to clean the cracks on those hardwood floors? We did a couple times. That was the pits.

Sgt. Gunter always use to get me at inspections with our bunks and such. She could bounce a quarter of my bunk and she never messed with my trunk and such but she would take my shoes and yell 'you call this a spit shine', and would look in it and than make me look in them and I could see my reflection, than she'd take the shoe and drop it to the floor, make me pick it up and look in it again and swear that she saw a mark in them or whatever and make me shine them again. I had some of the best looking shoes there. I use to help some of the girls shine there shoes. I think that's why she picked on me on that one. Now Sgt. Connelly would come and bounce a quarter of my bunk and say because it bounced to high my sheets were in too thight and she would take my mattress and bedding and throw it on the floor and as I recall one time she emptied my trunks contents on the floor also, don't rightly recollect why she did it that time.

Fortunately for me I had been prepped before going into bootcamp as to some of the things they did and the main thing was if you could go and not let them break your spirit you'd make a good marine but at the same time if you didn't allow them to break your spirit they'd be on you like a tick on a dog. So since I was strong-willed and wouldn't allow them to break my spirit they'd do that kind of stuff on me but all in all it was a good time in my life. At least while they picked on me they didn't pick on someone else. I sure did have alot of fun in bootcamp even though it was tough.

Oh we were a sorry platoon, we couldn't sing, none of the lot of us. Sgt Connelly was so ashamed of our singing that she would call cadence in Irish and no I don't remember it. And I'm sure I was the worst of the lot, I can't carry a tune to save my soul. Thank the Lord that the bible says 'make a joyful nose unto the Lord' so when I'm worshipping and praising him he doesn't find it disgusting. He didn't say we had to carry a tune but just make a joyful noise. Hee!Hee!

I think I should try and locate Connelly. Last I heard she retired and went back to MA. somewhere's. I figure she'd be in her late 60's or perhaps early 70's. Did I tell y'all that she ended up as my Gy. at the WM barracks at Henderson Hall my last tour in D.C. Of all things we use to go to the live Wrestling matches in D.C. once in a while. Wrestling matches back than were nothing like they are today. It's all fake today, all a show. I don't even bother to watch them on TV.

Oh!Oh! I just remembered another thing about bootcamp. At the chow line for breakfast they had a couple different lines one for those who had to lose weight and the other for those who had to gain weight. You guessed it I had to lose 10 lbs. They may me eat eggs, bacon, PRUNES, toast, milk, and juice for breakfast and you had to finish all of it. All the meals you had to finish it weather you wanted to or not, or weather you liked it or not. Food was good though. I wasn't a picky eater but I did get full quickly and if I tried to get away with not finishing something they made me eat it anyway. Those hot prunes were something else.

You know I'm surprised I remember that much about bootcamp. That was such a long time ago.

What is it like these days anyway in bootcamp?

frenchiestm@clds.net

[Anonymous]

:
: Speaking of toothbrushes did y'all ever have a G.I. party and made to get on
: your hands and knees and use a toothbrush to clean the cracks on those
: hardwood floors?


Yes, we had to do that when we stole the other platoons guide-on. Then once we put some bristle things on the bottom of their buffer to screw up their floor the night before a big inspection. That time we didn't get caught.

and as I recall one time she emptied my trunks contents on
: the floor also, don't rightly recollect why she did it that time.

Once when we running/marching/running/marching, etc. from morning, till night (in the early weeks of training), we came back to the barracks to the revelation that ALL of the trunks had been dumped into an extremely large pile in the center of the squadbay. Only to be cleaned up before any of us could go to bed. This was by far the most discouraging event during our 12 weeks. Funny now, but not so much so then.
:
: Oh we were a sorry platoon, we couldn't sing, none of the lot of us. Sgt
: Connelly was so ashamed of our singing that she would call cadence in
: Irish and no I don't remember it.

You mean you didn't have to sing the "Harlem Goat" every time you got too many letters from home! We had a couple of good singers in our platoon that saved us. Our nightly rendition of "The Lords Prayer" was pretty darn good by the end of the 12 weeks.

Breakfast was always my favorite meal in boot camp. We could smell the food every morning before 4:30 and after the first couple of weeks most of us were up before we had to be, so we could beat Platoon B to the chow line. Dinners were always less exciting because we were too tired to eat. Once I offered my poncho to one of the DI's who got caught without one during a rain storm. I got to get in front of the chow line every day for a week!! yippee

As far as the shoe shine thing went. We had three people who did everyone's shoes. Of course they never had to iron, make their beds, wash clothes, sew name tags, buff the floors, or stand duty. But that's what made us work!!

excuse the typos...



june@humonc.wisc.edu

[Anonymous]

June,

Do tell...how on earth did you ever have time to steal the other platoon's guide-on? I have this vision of boot camp where I am not even able to blink without asking permission...


:
: Yes, we had to do that when we stole the other platoons guide-on. Then once
: we put some bristle things on the bottom of their buffer to screw up their
: floor the night before a big inspection. That time we didn't get caught.




zuma50@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

: June,
:
: Do tell...how on earth did you ever have time to steal the other platoon's
: guide-on? I have this vision of boot camp where I am not even able to
: blink without asking permission...


Midnight requistions. And the help of a Sgt. McMasters. We never saw her during the day, but she had frequent night duty. And we never actually stole Platoon B's guide-on, just their streamers. (Sorry for misleading you) Morale frequently would go quite low during the early weeks of boot camp. We were reminded by Sgt. McMasters that we "stole the eagle from the Air Force, the anchor from the Navy, and the rope from the Army. On the 7th day, while God rested, we over-ran his perimeter and stole the globe, and we've been running the show ever since". I know you've heard that a dozen times already but the saying got elaborated on "in a small fashion" by our platoon.

The future marines posting on the board seem to have a high degree of motivation and are already determined to be superior Marines. And if we (old timers) knew a fraction of what you guys know before we went in, life would have been a little easier. The internet (such as this discussion board) has you guys primed and if you keep your attitudes steady, your frame of mind focused, and your feet on the ground, you'll be some of the finest Marines ever produced and you'll make your familes and the rest of us proud.

God speed to you all. june

june@humonc.wisc.edu