Women In Combat

[Anonymous]

Hello,**I am a highschool sudent in California and in Government class and I have chosen to debate that women should be allowed to be in combat. I would like to know how people feel about women being in combat. Being a very active women who has done a five week camping trip that involve doing trailwork,moving large stones,trees and much more I have no doubt that Women can handle the physical and emotional strain of combat. Why shouldn't a women be allowed to fight for her country out on the front lines?******



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WJ8422@AOL.com

[Anonymous]

: Hello back at you!**** I was perusing the web for additional information in reference to a graduate research project.**One of the courses I'm taking is &quot;feminine perspectives on literature&quot;, and one of the requirements is a 15 page research paper on women's issues.**Your advert on the web drew me in.**There is little doubt that there are women who are fully capable of combat; however, I shudder at the thought of trailwork and rock moving being the criteria for admission into the most horrible human experience.**What have you killed?**Why do I ask?**Prior to my scholastic endeavors I was an airborne ranger in the U.S. Army for five years.**I am a disabled combat veteran and have lived the experience you are arguing for.**Again I ask you, what have you killed?**Do you think that true combat corellates to the romanticised version?**Do you think all there is to it is looking through a set of sights and squeezing a trigger?**** Do you have a pet?**If you do, you probably love that pet a great deal, don't you?**If you want to experience combat, don't sleep for two days and nights.**Call your pet, stroke it's fur, kiss it's nose then cut it's throat and watch it die slowly.**Once it's dead, skin it and eat it in your back yard.**Go into the house and look at the photographs of the pet with your family.**Remember what it was like when the pet came to greet you when you came home, how it felt in your arms.**Then recall what it tasted like, how the blood flowed from it's jerking body as life ebbed.**Think of how you felt killing something so helpless and innocent, somthing that looked to you for life and love - and you killed it.**Now imagine killing your parents.**What would it feel like to look your parents in the eyes, feel the feelings of love that you have for them, and mercilessly rip the life from their bodies.**What would the rest of your life be like now that you killed your own parents?**How would you live with that thought for ever?**** That is what the glory of combat has to offer you.**You kill people that look like you, your parents, your friends.**You become a predator of your own kind, a real life vampire without the promise of eternal life.**All questions are answered concerning who you are, and what you are capable of.**No longer can you contemplate alternatives to death, or say without intent &quot;I felt like killing so-and-so&quot;.**The whole game changes.**I've killed at close range, smelled what kind of toothpaste and soap the &quot;enemy&quot; used that morning, and looked into his eyes as his body twitched as my knife severed his abdominal aorta.**I saw the fear.**I felt death come because it was me who called it.**Those men will never see their families again, nor will they share another moment of laughter or peace or tenderness.**Every time I see a father or mother kiss their child I remember the fathers and mothers of the children I savagely slaughtered.**I think of the little children who will never know their fathers because I killed them.**If I saw them today, what would I say to them?**How could I heal their pain, or even admit to have been the cause of it?**** There is no doubt that there are women who can do these things, women who can kill.**Do you really want to be one of them?**No one can make those decisions for you, as there are ways of gaining access to combat MOS's through indirect exposure fields.**You don't know me, or have any reason to believe me or what I have to say, but believe one thing...you don't want to become a killer because once you do, that is who you eternally become.




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jsr6880@students.ssu.edu

[Anonymous]

Women are too important to the survival of the human species.**If all the women die, who's going to have children?



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mob14@earthlink.net

[Anonymous]

The question whether women should be allowed in combat is not whether they can peform or not. The real question is whether women will be accepted by their male counterparts as equals. The military and especially the combat arms fields, are very institutionalized organizations, which consequently, are dominated by males. Many problems would follow if women were introduced into these fields, which would no doubt hamper military morale and effectiveness. The truth is that Men are not ready to accept women as equals in the combat arms fields. The military high brass (which are predominately males) knows this, and they will not allow it to happen. Thus, to force the issue purely on the basis that women can handle the job as well as men, is both narrow and naive.**



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Carlos148@aol.com

[Anonymous]

Don't kid yourself; a five week camping trip is in no way a comparison to even one day in combat.**Also, consider the fact that a male your age could also complete a five week camping trip and lift larger stones and trees all the while.**In most cases, a very active women has physically elevated herself to a normal male.However, I agree that women should be allowed in combat AS LONG AS THEY SATISFY ALL THE PHYSICAL AND MENTAL STANDARDS THE MILITARY HAS SET FOR MEN.**Placing step stools at walls on the obstacle course so women can get over and only requiring women to climb half way up a rope while men have to climb all the way is wrong.**If the current practice of &quot;gender norming&quot; in boot camp was extended to formal combat training, an ineffective fighting force would be the result.**One concern I do have though is the extra medical attention women require. Women deserve equality if they are equal.



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mahjea@rohmhaas.com

[Anonymous]

if a woman died in a war i would cry because i love women.



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massam@fred.net

[Anonymous]

:While this may be politically incorrect, I don't believe women should be allowed in combat. I do believe women can kill just as well men and are just as intelligent. The problem is mainly physical. I've seen reports where studies have shown that with enough training, women can be as physically tough as men. I don't doubt that, but most men don't require the extra amount of training that women do. Anybody can be trained to do anything, but there is a point when it is no longer practical. The ends don't justify the means. People have to realize that women do have it easier in the military. Granted, women must deal with more harrassment but physical standards are much lower for women than for men. For example, for the Army Physical Fitness Test, I must do a minimum of 42 push-ups, 52 sit-ups and run two miles in 15:54. Women are required to only do 18 push-ups, 50 sit-ups and are given nearly 19 minutes to run two miles. If that isn't biased, what is? The media and radical feminists would have people to believe that combat is all push-button, high-tech, satellite warfare. That is not the case. Ask those Army Rangers who fought in Somalia how many cruise missiles, F-16s, Patriots, and smart bombs would have helped them. None of that push-button technology would've helped them. Do you think the average woman would've been able to pull CW2 Durant out of that burning helicopter? I seriously doubt it. I'm 6' and 190lbs. and I pray that I don't have to one day rely on a 5'6&quot; 130lbs. woman to rescue me. I'll call my time up. For further reference, take the Battle of 32 Easting during Desert Storm. The 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment fought and Iraqi armored division. That's roughly the good guys outnumbered 3to1. A male loader on an M1A1 Abrams has no more than 8 seconds to reload the cannon on the tank. The loaders in the US Army can do that when they leave Ft. Knox. Do you think that that same**5'6&quot; 130lbs. woman could do that? I doubt it too. If that loading requirement had been gender normed to allow women to enter the Armor branch I think 32 Easting would have been lost by the US instead of the stunning defeat over the Iraqis. Please don't get me wrong, I know there are women who can beat the stuffing out of almost any man, but you have to take the average. The average woman is noticably weaker than the average man. The average man has more endurance than the average woman. The media and the feminists don't talk about how some units readiness was hurt during Desert Shield because of pregnancies. These were support units. Take the M1's crew of four. If one of them is gone due to pregnancy and you are shipping out for a combat zone tomorrow, you've lost your driver, loader, gunner, or commander. That crew's effectiveness is diminished. Imagine that happening throughout the infantry, armor, field artillery units. The combat effectiveness of the Army is gone because we don't have enough people and there isn't enough time to train more. The reason why those units that lost women could still function was because they were support units. Without those women there, supplies and equipment was delayed and logistics was slower. The combat units could handle that, but they had the manpower to improvise, adapt, and overcome. Combat units can't be short on soldiers and supplies. That is a dangerous mix. Lastly, there is a certain male bonding in all-male units. As hard as it is to explain to women and men who've never been there, it exists. I remember times when my whole unit would wrestle or go have a mud fight. We included everybody. There was no worry over touching somebody in the wrong place, saying the wrong thing, or any of the things men must be aware of when there are women present. Sexual harrassment is almost unheard of. Countless times we would call each other names like wuss, sissy, b@tch, hoe, among others and no one was offended. Out in the desert I remember being able to wash myself out in the open because there was no time to do anything else. There were no worries about someone getting embarrassed or &quot;Johnny saw Jane's boob!&quot; Women should be allowed to participate in air and naval combat, but the frontline should be left to men. This is very unpopular and some would say sexist, but the military readiness of the US should not be victim to somebody's political agenda. It's not 90s to say stuff like this, but who said war was politically correct? I believe a woman**is equal to a man intellectually, and in some areas, better. Women can shoot missiles, fly Apaches, F-22s, command aircraft carriers, and submarines as well as any man, but direct ground combat should be off limits. Don't let career opportunities get in the way of national defense.




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iwo6322@mailer1.pvamu.edu

[Anonymous]

****Hello,****Those that argue for women in combat truly don't know what is expected of a fighter, warrior, and soldier. Spending a few weeks on a wilderness camping trip does not qualify anyone to judge what is needed in combat. As an Infantry Staff Sergeant with sixteen years humping a rucksack, I think I am a little more qualified to judge what is needed of someone who is expected to close with and kill (not subdue, suppress, or contain, but to kill...take the life of...and render their body to pieces) another human being. If you think the last sentence is brutal then you really are not qualified to judge who can do what in combat. ****It's a lot more than being able to sleep on the ground and eat from a can. It's carrying your body weight (or more) for twenty, thirty, or forty miles afetr going weeks with minimal sleep, limited food and usually with chronic pain from same rucksack. True, a few women will be able to take the rigors of the job. Maybe 5 percent, but the other ninety-five percent wi



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ADilimone@AOL.com

[Anonymous]

Hello, personally I don't think that women belong on the front lines.**The fact of the matter is that they do not have the physical capabilities that men do.**While I was stationed at Ft. Bragg N.C. I ran into a situation, While I was at a leadership school, where a female soldier asked me to carry her rucksack for her.**What would this particular female do,in combat if bullets were flying at her ass?



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busta007@mailexcite.com

[Anonymous]

: Hello,**I am a highschool sudent in California and in Government class and I have chosen to debate that women should be allowed to be in combat. I would like to know how people feel about women being in combat. Being a very active women who has done a five week camping trip that involve doing trailwork,moving large stones,trees and much more I have no doubt that Women can handle the physical and emotional strain of combat. Why shouldn't a women be allowed to fight for her country out on the front lines?******&quot;GREETINGS&quot;....bBased on an interview with an 11 year female drill sergeant veteran,she explained that while on a simulated combat excercise, she was injured by another soldier, and to her surprise, she was coddled by all male soldiers including the ones that dint like her or could have cared less, so to her surprise it appeard that a certain cultural inherent action to protect a female was definet, so maybe the question should be more so directed to see if the male soldiers c




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MINTEGRITY@AOL.COM

[Anonymous]

It seems to me like there is no real information in any of these arguements.**Has anyone considdered the fact that women are genetically inferior to men when it comes to physical developement.**Sure, any woman could fly a plane, but I'd like to see them become marines or navy seals (if anyone mentions GI Jane, they'll get hurt). Politics aside, women are not as qualified as men physically to be in the military.



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S_Major@altavista.net

[Anonymous]

Mr. Reed: This is the only HONEST, compelling argument that I have so far that MIGHT change my opinion on women serving in combat. But it's highly unlikely that it will. Women have served in combat in the Israeli army (i'm sure you already know this) and it didn't seem to be a problem for them. If one is to argue that once one becomes a killer, they are indelibly stamped both emotionally, mentally and physically, then the dangers would be equally hazardous for men and women as HUMANS and not as a gender. No one ever WANTS to go to war. But every person should have a chance at defending their country. I was raised an Army brat (all my brothers, my father and 99% of my relatives on both sides of the family have served this country in the armed forces) so I know well the risks that soldiers take. I would hate to think that I would be unable to continue a family military tradition because someone who is NOT me thinks that it would be to dangerous for me. I am, after all, an adult. I'm sure that weighing the risks is all part of life.



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Kieli@geocities.com

[Anonymous]

Jeff,** This is one of the most powerful and heartfelt pieces I've read.**Your imagery should be plastered all over the streets, so that nobody ever forgets the horror of war, of combat, and of killing.**Very, very, powerful.****I, personally, would never want to be in special forces, or a front-line killer.**I've opted for the more distanced and sanitary choice of a regular sailor.. but one who works on the electronics that control the weapons systems.**Maybe that's worse, because you never have to face the reality of your actions?**Any of us who serve in the Country's defense have to recognize that we could be called upon to take life, which is, or should be, a horrible and sombering realization.**Trusting that those who make the decisions of war are directing us in the best interest of the country isn't necessarily easy.**After traveling througout much of the world, however, I'm convinced our country is a wonderful ideal, and preserving the freedoms we enjoy for our children is worth fighting for.**That's how I justify my job to myself, and to my kids.**Anyhow, I ramble.**My point was going to be this- No, I personally don't want to fight on the front lines as you describe.**That's definately not my first choice.**Probably not for most people, men or women, if they look at it realistically instead of ideally.**But for those who do choose this path, their sex really shouldn't matter.**Whoever wants to, and is qualified and able, &quot;let&quot; them.**God, I hope my daughter never wants to do this!**But you know what?**I hope like hell my son never does either.



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wjungle@pacbell.net

[Anonymous]

: Women are too important to the survival of the human species.**If all the women die, who's going to have children?That's the weakest arguement I've ever heard (from dear Edward). Give the girl a GOOD reason for women not being in combat. The day a male comes up with one, I might change my opinion. As it stands, I'm all for it.




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Kieli@geocities.com

[Anonymous]

: Women are too important to the survival of the human species.**If all the women die, who's going to have children?yeah, and as soon as women are allowed into combat positions, all the females in the world will jump into the army, go into battle, and all be killed, leaving the male species alone on the planet.. uh huh.i see that happening.very weak argument.




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s12058ak@umassd.edu

[Anonymous]

=)** =)****=)**=)**Perfect response, Major.



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wjungle@pacbell.net

[Anonymous]

Hanna, this is a guy who thinks a major battle was fought at 32 Easting during the Gulf War.....he's hardly a credible source of information on anything to do with the military. He's not politically incorrect. He's just incorrect.



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peeplej@bosch-brakes.com

[Anonymous]

Double standards is the most stupid thing anyone have ever invented. By the way I was suprised that you have so low standards (for the male), the female standards I won't even comment. Here(Sweden) we have one standard for men and women (run about 2 miles, faster than 14 min, plus more tests). About ground combat, the competition is hard, and the best is picked (several Brigades have 100-200 applicants for groundcombat-officerstraining, to 5 places) Now and then one of those 5 accepted is a women, simply because she was one of the 5 best. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE AVERAGE, IT'S ABOUT GETTING THE BEST. And about &quot;male-bonding&quot;. Well maybe you're right, I'm a women so all units I have been to became mixed when I entered, but the problem is people like YOU. Who seems to think women are from another planet. Where I have been, my collegues treated me just like anyone else in the team and they let me be a part of the team, and thats how it should be. It don't take a special &quot;male-bond&quot; to win a war, but it does take a TEAM. About showers, toiletts and undressing. Who says women need that to survive? I've been sleeping in the same room, sharing the same shower and locker-room as the men,for all my first 3 years in the Armed Forces, I've been &quot;stripping down&quot; in line with everyone else for an &quot;ice-wake swim&quot; during winter training, I've been sharing tent with my male collegues, I've been sleeping outside next to my &quot;war-buddy&quot;, and I've kept him going when he wanted to quit. And about that once a month issue, well thats my problem isn't it, and it sure doesn't affect anyone else. By the way, I haven't been pregnant iether, strange with all those men around me, isn't it? Well, I have a brain, I'm not stupid enough to have sex with anyone in the unit, besides, I have a fiencée(non-military), and if i didn't I would certainly keep to civilian guys. And have you heard of birth-controll? To read something like that you wrote makes me irritated, it's like I (and other of my female collegues) didn't exist. Rubbish!



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hanna.lantz@home.se

[Anonymous]

While this may be politically incorrect, I don't believe women should be allowed in combat. I do believe women can kill just as well men and are just as intelligent. The problem is mainly physical. I've seen reports where studies have shown that with enough training, women can be as physically tough as men. I don't doubt that, but most men don't require the extra amount of training that women do. Anybody can be trained to do anything, but there is a point when it is no longer practical. The ends don't justify the means. People have to realize that women do have it easier in the military. Granted, women must deal with more harrassment but physical standards are much lower for women than for men. For example, for the Army Physical Fitness Test, I must do a minimum of 42 push-ups, 52 sit-ups and run two miles in 15:54. Women are required to only do 18 push-ups, 50 sit-ups and are given nearly 19 minutes to run two miles. If that isn't biased, what is? The media and radical feminists would have people to believe that combat is all push-button, high-tech, satellite warfare. That is not the case. Ask those Army Rangers who fought in Somalia how many cruise missiles, F-16s, Patriots, and smart bombs would have helped them. None of that push-button technology would've helped them. Do you think the average woman would've been able to pull CW2 Durant out of that burning helicopter? I seriously doubt it. I'm 6' and 190lbs. and I pray that I don't have to one day rely on a 5'6&quot; 130lbs. woman to rescue me. I'll call my time up. For further reference, take the Battle of 32 Easting during Desert Storm. The 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment fought and Iraqi armored division. That's roughly the good guys outnumbered 3to1. A male loader on an M1A1 Abrams has no more than 8 seconds to reload the cannon on the tank. The loaders in the US Army can do that when they leave Ft. Knox. Do you think that that same**5'6&quot; 130lbs. woman could do that? I doubt it too. If that loading requirement had been gender normed to allow women to enter the Armor branch I think 32 Easting would have been lost by the US instead of the stunning defeat over the Iraqis. Please don't get me wrong, I know there are women who can beat the stuffing out of almost any man, but you have to take the average. The average woman is noticably weaker than the average man. The average man has more endurance than the average woman. The media and the feminists don't talk about how some units readiness was hurt during Desert Shield because of pregnancies. These were support units. Take the M1's crew of four. If one of them is gone due to pregnancy and you are shipping out for a combat zone tomorrow, you've lost your driver, loader, gunner, or commander. That crew's effectiveness is diminished. Imagine that happening throughout the infantry, armor, field artillery units. The combat effectiveness of the Army is gone because we don't have enough people and there isn't enough time to train more. The reason why those units that lost women could still function was because they were support units. Without those women there, supplies and equipment was delayed and logistics was slower. The combat units could handle that, but they had the manpower to improvise, adapt, and overcome. Combat units can't be short on soldiers and supplies. That is a dangerous mix. Lastly, there is a certain male bonding in all-male units. As hard as it is to explain to women and men who've never been there, it exists. I remember times when my whole unit would wrestle or go have a mud fight. We included everybody. There was no worry over touching somebody in the wrong place, saying the wrong thing, or any of the things men must be aware of when there are women present. Sexual harrassment is almost unheard of. Countless times we would call each other names like wuss, sissy, b@tch, hoe, among others and no one was offended. Out in the desert I remember being able to wash myself out in the open because there was no time to do anything else. There were no worries about someone getting embarrassed or &quot;Johnny saw Jane's boob!&quot; Women should be allowed to participate in air and naval combat, but the frontline should be left to men. This is very unpopular and some would say sexist, but the military readiness of the US should not be victim to somebody's political agenda. It's not 90s to say stuff like this, but who said war was politically correct? I believe a woman**is equal to a man intellectually, and in some areas, better. Women can shoot missiles, fly Apaches, F-22s, command aircraft carriers, and submarines as well as any man, but direct ground combat should be off limits. Don't let career opportunities get in the way of national defense.



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iwo6322@mailer1.pvamu.edu

[Anonymous]

: I to am doing a report on women in the military, but unlike the girl in Ca i oppose it. I think that there are only a few select women that can be in combat situations. It takes a great amount of strenght and conditioning. Most women can not emotionally untie themselves. If they were forced to kill someone they would most likely freeze up. I am having a hard time finding information on this topic so if anyone could help i would appreciate it. I personnally think your wrong.**I am a women in the military I know of a lot of women that would make it on the front line.**I also know a lot of men in the military that could NOT cut it in the front line.**I don't think it is necessarily a gender thing.**




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ATC TI@aol.com

[Anonymous]

: I to am doing a report on women in the military, but unlike the girl in Ca i oppose it. I think that there are only a few select women that can be in combat situations. It takes a great amount of strenght and conditioning. Most women can not emotionally untie themselves. If they were forced to kill someone they would most likely freeze up. I am having a hard time finding information on this topic so if anyone could help i would appreciate it.




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MMcKale@concentric.net

[Anonymous]

: I to am doing a report on women in the military, but unlike the girl in Ca i oppose it. I think that there are only a few select women that can be in combat situations. It takes a great amount of strenght and conditioning. Most women can not emotionally untie themselves. If they were forced to kill someone they would most likely freeze up. I am having a hard time finding information on this topic so if anyone could help i would appreciate it. -----------------First , let`s imagine that standards for f/m recruits are the same . All do the same things , training , etc... So , those wro`re able to do it they do it , those who don`t , drop out . ( I think that answers to &quot;strenght and conditioning&quot;) So , it`s not giving females easier standards . And why do you think women would freeze up ?**It has absolutley nothing with a gender , but only an individual . What makes you think men wouldn`t freeze up ? Killing is a terible thing to do , but it`s only in one`s head if he/she is capable of killing . And now it`s finaly about the last part - combat You can`t judge somebody by gender , but only by that person`s possibilities . It`s not important what number of women are in the combat , if it`s 1 or 10000 , those who can do same things as men (and I mean all that is expected from male soldier - like killing , or carying wounded friend without indagering his/her`s life of his/her own life , or absoloutley anything else )should be in . The bottom line is - either one is capable for it , or should just let those who are .




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deana_3@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

I to am doing a report on women in the military, but unlike the girl in Ca i oppose it. I think that there are only a few select women that can be in combat situations. It takes a great amount of strenght and conditioning. Most women can not emotionally untie themselves. If they were forced to kill someone they would most likely freeze up. I am having a hard time finding information on this topic so if anyone could help i would appreciate it.



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mkw17@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

: : : Hello, personally I don't think that women belong on the front lines.**The fact of the matter is that they do not have the physical capabilities that men do.**While I was stationed at Ft. Bragg N.C. I ran into a situation, While I was at a leadership school, where a female soldier asked me to carry her rucksack for her.**What would this particular female do,in combat if bullets were flying at her ass?Being a female in the Air Force, I don't think you have seen the hole picture.**I agree some females have no business on the front line, but I also know a few males that don't belong there either.**I am a Military Training Instructor (if your Army I believe they are called DI).**I run 4 miles a day and used to carry a M-60 when I was in Korea.**I think its pretty unfair to judge us all, just because of one female.It has nothing to do with what you can do in trsining.**As a formerS.F. Instructor I have found that females do not belong in combat!!!!Not because they can not handle it.**Because there would have to be seperate showers, bathrooms, that once a month problem that females get, ect.*****I wholeheartedly agree that women should not be in combat. As a future U.S. Army officer, I would hate to see the greatest nation in the world knocked out of number one because we are more worried about seperate bathrooms and such, rather than the real threats at hand.*Why fix it if it ain't broke???




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sxa5113@sru.edu

[Anonymous]

: : Hello, personally I don't think that women belong on the front lines.**The fact of the matter is that they do not have the physical capabilities that men do.**While I was stationed at Ft. Bragg N.C. I ran into a situation, While I was at a leadership school, where a female soldier asked me to carry her rucksack for her.**What would this particular female do,in combat if bullets were flying at her ass?Being a female in the Air Force, I don't think you have seen the hole picture.**I agree some females have no business on the front line, but I also know a few males that don't belong there either.**I am a Military Training Instructor (if your Army I believe they are called DI).**I run 4 miles a day and used to carry a M-60 when I was in Korea.**I think its pretty unfair to judge us all, just because of one female.It has nothing to do with what you can do in trsining.**As a formerS.F. Instructor I have found that females do not belong in combat!!!!Not because they can not handle it.**Because there would have to be seperate showers, bathrooms, that once a month problem that females get, ect.**




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snmcross@ctc.net

[Anonymous]

: Hello, personally I don't think that women belong on the front lines.**The fact of the matter is that they do not have the physical capabilities that men do.**While I was stationed at Ft. Bragg N.C. I ran into a situation, While I was at a leadership school, where a female soldier asked me to carry her rucksack for her.**What would this particular female do,in combat if bullets were flying at her ass?Being a female in the Air Force, I don't think you have seen the hole picture.**I agree some females have no business on the front line, but I also know a few males that don't belong there either.**I am a Military Training Instructor (if your Army I believe they are called DI).**I run 4 miles a day and used to carry a M-60 when I was in Korea.**I think its pretty unfair to judge us all, just because of one female.




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ATC TI@aol.com