women in the marine recon

[Anonymous]

This is for a contrevertial essay for school.I want to know why there aren't any women in recon? Would any of you be willing to answer a couple of essay questions?**Will anyone help? **** thanks, Emily Strang



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emilystrang@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

: This is for a contrevertial essay for school.I want to know why there aren't any women in recon? Would any of you be willing to answer a couple of essay questions?**Will anyone help? **** thanks, Emily StrangHi Emily,**I think there is a very simple answer to your question.**Recon (MOS 0321) is not an initial (although it can later be converted to primary to keep its members in the field)MOS (Military Occupational Specialty).**BRC/ARS (ie Recon School) is attended as a follow-on by volunteers from the Corps' combat MOS's, with the vast majority being from infantry (03xx), but with a sprinkling of artillerymen, communications bubbas, the odd tanker or amtracker, and some assorted other folks.**Since the combat MOS's (03xx, 08xx, 18xx and 1371) are closed to women per regulation, women are consequently not allowed to attend recon school and enter the recon companies and battalions.**If I can be any further help, please email me directly.EJSgt USMCejohn@vt.edu




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ejohn@vt.edu

[Anonymous]

There are no women in Marine recon because most (99.99%) couldn't physically handle the job.**For a women to survive recon training, she would have to be the physical equivilant of Jackie Jorner Kersey.**Roughly 2/3 of the men who join don't make it.**However, if Jackie did join and passed all of the tests, she should be allowed in.The movie GI Jane is a farce.



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mahjea@rohmhaas.com

[Anonymous]

: This is for a contrevertial essay for school.I want to know why there aren't any women in recon? Would any of you be willing to answer a couple of essay questions?**Will anyone help? **** thanks, Emily StrangAs a former Recon Marine, who spend time in Somilia, I've got to tell you this type of question annoys the hell out of me.**The general public's understanding of the Marine Corps, in particular Recon Marines is about zero.**We, as Americans, have not had foreign troops on our soil since 1812 and the last time we face any serious treat was nearly three generations ago.**Less than.01 percent of Americans have every seen combat, less than .8 of Americans alive today have ever served in a combat arms branch of the military, and yet I am constantly surrounded by men and women that are expects on combat and the military. Because we live in such a warm-and-fuzzy politically correct country, we want everyone to feel good about themselves, so the simple answers are always glossed over. First off, women are basic Marines by default not one holds her title by virtue of earning it.**The standards to be a Marine, should be the standards to be a Marine, PERIOD.**Their should be no serparte standards for women, ie. if women don't have the upper body strenght to fight and KILL a man, then TO BAD join the air force, don't endanger my life or my fellow Marines because you want to say you're a Marine. Make no mistake about it the US Marine Corps exist for one sole purpose, and that is to KILL the enemies of the United States. Let me say it one more time for the people in the cheat seats, the mission of the US marine Corps is to close with the enemy, and destory him...To kill, not feed, not hung, not look pretty, to kill.**That may be with a M-16, or it may be with a brick in your hand, or your bare fist. I have deployed over seas and I do know what I'm talking about. I am not a lawyer so I would never try an step into a court room a pratic law, nor am I a doctor therefore I would never attempt to operate on another human.**I would ask that unless you have received a bapistism in fire, become a Recon Marine, or simply spent a min. of 4 years in the Marines simple trust myself and fellow Marines when we tell you and others all the GI Jane crap is a fairy tale,a part of American's pop culture that is being forced on the general military plain and simple.**If anyone would like to contact me my e-mail address is jcolosky@juno.com Semper Fi!



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jcolosky@juno.com

[Anonymous]

: This is for a contrevertial essay for school.I want to know why there aren't any women in recon? Would any of you be willing to answer a couple of essay questions?**Will anyone help? **** thanks, Emily StrangEmily, I stumbled upon your request while searching for general info re: Marine Recon. Perhaps your essay is completed by now 3/7/98, but your request still floats about the web. Anyhow, I served with 2d Force Recon Co. '79 - '81 during which time a Women Marine (WM) Sgt. was assigned to our Administrative section. This is probably as close as a WM has ever come to being a Recon Marine, in fact she was &quot;given&quot; a school quota for US Army Jump school, a sore point for the male Marines assigned to the line platoons awaiting that phase of their individual training. Her function was administrative per our Table of Organization (TO) and although she was assigned to a Marine Force Recon Co. she was not a recon team member. I read the other replies you received and they pretty much say it all. Besides, among the many reasons the men of the United States are compelled to fight for our country is that of preserving what is decent, warm and nuturing about &quot;us&quot; as a nation. If women are assigned to combat task, &quot;we&quot; risk losing a portion of**our decency as a nation. Corny as it may sound I prefer to stand up for the mothers, sisters and daughters of my country and hope that by doing so they can remain decent, warm and nuturing.Semper Fidelis.




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MCMAUI@aloha.net

[Anonymous]

Emily,I am currently in Marine Force Recon, and am currently training in Kuwait.**If you have any further questions, let me know.As far as women in Marine Recon, the only reason that it hasn't happened yet is simply because congress hasn't allowed it.**There are a lot of bias out there about women in the combat arms, especially the infantry.The fact remains that anyone qualified to do a job should be allowed to do it.**I know plenty of women that are quite a bit more physically in shape than plenty of men in the infantry.**And also plenty of women that can pass our &quot;Recon Indoctrination&quot;.**Women first need to combat generations of society steroetyping, and need to bond together as their male counterparts to show that they can do the job without male interference.If there is anything else, let me know.**I think that anyone would agree that if a woman could prove that she can do the job, she should be allowed.**I think social factors would prove a greater hinderance to woman in the infantry.**Could a company of women spend six months on a ship of all women?**It is a lot harder than it sounds, and men have been doing it for generations.**How about shaving heads?**Will women set aside their pride and shave off all their hair like their male counterparts.**It's not like the men enjoy losing all their hair in boot camp.**Would women step inside a boxing ring with a man of equal size and weight for a 60 second bout as the men had to do in Boot Camp?**And would a woman deny her body's natural tendencies to force herself to be more physically &quot;like a guy&quot;.**All of these are questions male Marines have approached me with (I am also doing a bit of a study), and they need to be answered within every female with the desire to join the combat arms.Let me know.Johnetoughguy@hotmail.com



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johnetoughguy@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

Women are not allowed in Marine Force Recon because Congress, and the American people do not want to see their young daughters come home in body bags during war times. It's sounds very biased and there are quite a few women who deserve to be in Recon, but untill congress changes the law, which is very unlikely, these outstanding women won't even be able to qualify for it. That also includes any combat unit like the Seals and Green Berets.******************************************* *************************Sincerely,*************** ************************************************** ******* Barry Wilson



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F6J9W@aol.com

[Anonymous]

Dear Holly;** ****************I have read your statments and would like to say it mattersany time you have a female in a country that does not reconize our ideas nor acknowledge equallity between genders . Some women I have found to be just as tough as men but in a combat situation this would seem to cause some enamy to see as less a threat to them.There cousing undo rest and possibly a jolt of motivation for them .Which could result in more casualitys in the long run. ************** The last thing America needs to see is American women coming in bodybags.Its bad enough any Americans should come home that way .But the very foundation and morale grounds that created this country should be destroyed and brought home in a body bag. Woman have been the center of what patriotism ,pride , and the reson for our service members to come home to.To see our future mothers and daughters comeing home would be a blow to what our forefathers stood for. If they were allowed to performed under the same standards the male service member has to, then by all means the should be**allowed to searve as equals and even serve over males .Thank you . Semper Fi. OORAA!!!!!!



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rooster@carol.net

[Anonymous]

To Jason:**You gave your opinion (which I truly understand and respect), as to why you thought women shouldn't be allowed into Recon, but for you to say that &quot;women are basic Marines by default not one holds her title by virtue of earning it&quot;, well, I think you pushed the envelope a but too far, my Marine Brother.**Although I personally never once had the desire to become a &quot;Recon Ranger&quot;, (I am a former WM, from 79-83 and worked in a support communications center that often &quot;humped&quot; into the field), I don't think women who want to enter Recon should be prevented in doing so.**I also think that the Corps is turning out more combat-ready WM's than ever before and that the gap is closing rapidly as far as separate standards for men and women in the Corps are concerned.**Today, it is a REQUIREMENT that ALL Marines, BOTH male and female, must go through close combat, the confidence course, combat water survival, the rifle range, AND pass the Crucible before they can even graduate from bootcamp! This didn't exist for WM's in my day, although I wish it had. Unfortunately, attitudes like yours did exist in certain males all over the Marine Corps then, just as they are today. It seems that no matter what WM's effectively do, or try to do - not because &quot;we want to feel good about ourselves&quot;, but because this is our country too and as Marines, we should be given the chance to do it, we will be told by many like you, that we can't. Well I say, so what???!!!**Many of us were told to our faces by certain male Marines that we didn't belong, nor wanted in the Corps, and we didn't balk, cry or run because of if, what makes you think that women will just because certain male Marines don't want WM's in Recon?**I say CERTAIN because not all male Marines feel the way you do, thank God!**Again, so what???!!!**Believe me, every WM I've come to know, knew and understood the existence of the Marine Corps, what it stands for, and what each Marine is called to do when called upon to do it - and that is, to kill the enemies of the United States!**For ANY Marine that doesn't, I agree, should consider another branch of service.**But don't you dare tell me, that WM's cannot kill the enemy from the front lines along-side you, if they are being trained to do it from their respective places within the Corps, (wherever they may be) WITHOUT you!**I'd say we've all earned our right to call ourselves Marines, no matter what era - whether or not we fought in a war or conflict, and most of all - no matter what gender!**Semper Fi!**



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hfountai@npr.org

[Anonymous]

Ahmen!SPC. K**2/75 Ranger



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Happyjacktm@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

You say that you know what you are talking about. How can you know anything, when you never had a woman in your unit. In case you didn't know there are countries in the world that have women in their elite fighting forces, my country for example. They are not many at all but they exists and it works just fine. Why are they let in? Because they are good enough. I know what I'm talking about, I see it with my own eyes, which is more than I**can say about you.



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Hanna.lantz@home.se

[Anonymous]

Not all Marines feel this way.**I believe Jason has had little to no contact with his female counterparts and speaks out of ignorance.**Therefore his remarks should be ignored.SemperFi!



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joan_e@yahoo.com

[Anonymous]

: : This is for a contrevertial essay for school.I want to know why there aren't any women in recon? Would any of you be willing to answer a couple of essay questions?**Will anyone help? **** thanks, Emily StrangAs a former Recon Marine, who spend time in Somilia, I've got to tell you this type of question annoys the hell out of me.**The general public's understanding of the Marine Corps, in particular Recon Marines is about zero.**We, as Americans, have not had foreign troops on our soil since 1812 and the last time we face any serious treat was nearly three generations ago.**Less than.01 percent of Americans have every seen combat, less than .8 of Americans alive today have ever served in a combat arms branch of the military, and yet I am constantly surrounded by men and women that are expects on combat and the military. Because we live in such a warm-and-fuzzy politically correct country, we want everyone to feel good about themselves, so the simple answers are always glossed over. First off, women are basic Marines by default not one holds her title by virtue of earning it.**The standards to be a Marine, should be the standards to be a Marine, PERIOD.**Their should be no serparte standards for women, ie. if women don't have the upper body strenght to fight and KILL a man, then TO BAD join the air force, don't endanger my life or my fellow Marines because you want to say you're a Marine. Make no mistake about it the US Marine Corps exist for one sole purpose, and that is to KILL the enemies of the United States. Let me say it one more time for the people in the cheat seats, the mission of the US marine Corps is to close with the enemy, and destory him...To kill, not feed, not hung, not look pretty, to kill.**That may be with a M-16, or it may be with a brick in your hand, or your bare fist. I have deployed over seas and I do know what I'm talking about. I am not a lawyer so I would never try an step into a court room a pratic law, nor am I a doctor therefore I would never attempt to operate on another human.**I would ask that unless you have received a bapistism in fire, become a Recon Marine, or simply spent a min. of 4 years in the Marines simple trust myself and fellow Marines when we tell you and others all the GI Jane crap is a fairy tale,a part of American's pop culture that is being forced on the general military plain and simple.**If anyone would like to contact me my e-mail address is jcolosky@juno.com Semper Fi! Sir, although I agree with your answer, that women should not be in recon (although my reasons are slightly different) please state your opinions in a less disagreeable manner.**Being so agressive and rude does nothing to help your argument, it only makes other people who share your views look as limited and abrasive as yourself.**I apologise for my criticsm, but people like you do more damage than good.**As a person who decided in Jr. High to join Recon, and is still working towards that goal, I have met several Marines (including some Recon Marines) and other people who went through combat as well as read extensively.**I do not believe women should be in Recon for two main reasons.**Women (and please ladies, don't hurt me, this statement came from a woman I know) are better at handling stress long term (over months and years) where men are subject to flashbacks and other problems, BUT women do not handle stressful situations as well when they are happening.**Also, another big reason (especially for the somewhat impoverished Marine Corps) is the complications resulting from field accomadations for men and women togeather.**Two men and two women in the field is a much bigger problem than four men.**Also, more women means more money for updating barracks and equiptment to handle them.**These are my humble opinions and if I offended anyone I apologise profusely.Celer, Selens, Mortalis!Joshua D. Speaks, Future Col. USMC




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DuncanMcLeod1@Juno.com

[Anonymous]

A BIG OOOOOOORRRRRAAAAAHHHHH to you, Brother McDonnell!!Semper Fi!Holly



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hfountai@npr.org

[Anonymous]

I agree with Sgt. McDonnell.**I am a former Marine who knows the contributions that women are making in the Corps.**There are a number of WM's that could easily replace some of the men who are on the &quot;front-lines&quot; by default.**Women deserve our respect and we will demonstrate this respect only when we allow them to compete for all positions in the military, Marine Recon included.



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dgaither@allst.com

[Anonymous]

As a former infantry Marinefrom Camp Pendleton your response to Emily Strang annoys the hell out of me!**I too spent time in Somalia as well as Desert Storm, and numerous deployments from Kuwait to the Los Angeles riots.**I have seen combat twice and was decorated for heroism.**I have held dying Marines in my lap and placed the body parts of a friend in a trash bag.**I have earned the right to an opinion on women in combat.**Have you?**Your statement that &quot;women are Marines by default&quot; is a slap in the face of all of us who are Marines.**I am currently on recruiting duty and have had the honor of placing five women into the Marines, two of which have been honor grads.**They are equal to and in many cases better Marines than the seventy three male Marines I have enlisted.**They are every bit as proud and motivated.**Their recruit training is IDENTICAL to male recruits.**Their crucable, PFT and rifle qualifications are IDENTICAL.**They definately earn the title Marine!**Whether they should be in direct combat with the enemy is not my decision and I will keep my opinions private.**Being male does not make you a Marine anymore than being female keeps you from it.**The Marine Corps continues to be a Band Of Brothers and that includes our Sisters.**They have earned it, gents.**Semper Fi



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McDonnellMS@mcrc.usmc.mil

[Anonymus]

I personally know a female USN Intelligence Officer who could probably kill most of you though guys BEOFRE you get the chance to use your superior upper body strength. Of course the job of the military is to kill the enemy, but some branches display a bit more intelligence than others. To be a naval aviator for example is a VERY though job and there are women doing it. If you don't think it's a tough job, then you don't know what you're talking about; and I'm not referring to the complexity of the physics involved or of the tech, no, I'm talking of the strains placed on the body by the effects of flying. But being a sailor involved in surface combat is no easy thing either. And of course women are allowed to do it, even to command ships. So let me see if I get this right, per the Department of the Navy, a woman is qualified to kill the enemy with billion dollar plane or ship, qualified to do the VERY dangerous job of an intelligence officer, but not qualified to kill the enemy with a rifle? Really? I mean of course there is some bullshit here with different standards and all, which shouldn't exist, there should be only one standard. But for women who can pass that, there should be no restrictions. But that would be an ideal world where there is no macho attitude in the Marine Corps.