Fraudulent enlistment

[Anonymous]

Okay, I have read alot about this subject on this board and many others and just want to know how stringent is the backround check? It amazes me how many people that I went to basic & ait with in 96 actually bragged about lying in one form or another on their application. Even though they were told that there would be a fingerprint check through the fbi. How can so many people fall through the cracks? I say this because I know that it takes time for the checks to come back, but several of the same people that did all of this bragging were stationed with me at permanent party. Is the Army lowering their standards for recruits or are they just trying to scare people into telling the truth from the get go? Let's be real, EVERYONE is not honest, although we know that integrety is a vital part of military service. I just wanted to get some feedback from others that may have encountered the same scenario and what you think should be done about it. BELEIVE me, I do not in any way condone lying to get into the service, to a degree. Something as small as not revealing trying pot is no way comparable to lying about a criminal offense. I though fraudulent enlistment was something to be fearful of? By the way, I hope I don't sound contradictory about not revealing trying marijuana, I just don't think that that is a big enough issue like a criminal history. SOme feedback would be great. Especially from someone who has experienced a discharge from fraudulently enlisting into the armed forces.

agtmat5@aol.com

[Anonymous]

OK, I wasn't put out for fraudulent reasons, but I put enough out over the years to know a little about this.


:
: Okay, I have read alot about this subject on this board and many others and
: just want to know how stringent is the backround check?


Background checks come into play whenever you are up for a clearance. Everyone entering the military gets a background check for a General Clearance. The background check for a General clearance is more of a paper shuffle. If its' on paper, they know about it. They check with police departments, FBI, DMV, medical records (just at a surface level because many medical records are not for general release, usually they check through hospitals), school records, etc. This is not a in depth investigation, these are public records that they check. Depending on what's on your forms it may take all of half hour to complete, especially with the computer systems of today. Best way to put it is that it's a quick looksey at your life. They'll only dig if red flags come up. But no finding things like you smoked pot once won't come up. Even your general medical is just looking at operations if they know what hospital to hit. They tend to accept that you are an honest person from the get go.
:
: How can so many people fall through the cracks? I say this because I know that : it takes time for the checks to come back, but several of the same people
: that did all of this bragging were stationed with me at permanent party.

Depends on what they are bragging about. Could be too that that's all it is bragging. People love to give the illusion that they got over. Your general clearance will only pick up serious offenses.
:
: Is the Army lowering their standards for recruits or are they just trying
: to scare people into telling the truth from the get go? Let's be real,
: EVERYONE is not honest, although we know that integrety is a vital part of
: military service.

Depends on your perspective whether the Army is lowering their standards or not. Yes, people tell white lies, that a given and generally it's not the white lies they are worried about in the beginning, it's your general make up as a law abiding citizen. It's when you get into your higher clearances (which when you make E6 you must possess a Secret Clearance and in some MOS's it comes even earlier) that the white lies can catch up with you. Then those white lies stop being fraudulent enlistment and can be the basis for very serious UCMJ action as well as discharge from the service. Imagine having say 6 years in they find out that you smoked pot. The first thing that would happen is you would be denied the clearance, now since you can't get a clearance you may be barred from promotion, essentially your career stops. That doesn't seem like much, but you might as well get out because you'll never make retirement. Are they using this as a scare tactic, no it's a filtering system for further down the road. Yes, the punishment for white lies may seem like a slap on the wrist, but I was only using smoking pot as an example. If you can't get a clearance, it affects all aspects of your job, you are considered untrustworthy and a target for enemy exploitation. Do they not teach SAEDA any more? People have hid much more serious offenses and ended up with jail time. It depends on what you lie about.
:
: I though fraudulent enlistment was something to be fearful of?

As thourough as the Army tried to be, even in the upper clearances, some things will slip through. It happens. Is fraudulent enlistment something to be fearful of, yes. It is something that will follow you all your life. You will be issued a DD-214 with a code on it identifying you as fraudulent enlistment and depending on why you were put out many civilian employers will think twice before hiring you.

The bottom line for this whole thing is your Army experience is based on teamwork. With teamwork you must have trust. Your life is depending on this individual and if you don't trust them, then the team breaks down. Yes, white lies seem like an innocent thing, but enough of them can add up to a big thing. Is it a once in a lifetime thing or is it how you base your life. I, personally, have more respect and trust in an individual who will own up to the fact that yes, I did smoke at one time, than someone who says no I never did, then turn around and brag about it. Admitting you smoked at one time will not keep you out of the Army. Lying about it is the Sword of Damacles hanging over your head wondering when will they find out about it and what will be the consequences. It also starts people wondering what else are you lying about and can sset that ball into motion that makes them dig further. Is it really worth it just for a white lie??

As for what to do about it, it's a case by case thing and a judgement call. If you feel strongly about it, then act.

[Anonymous]

I was just at a recruiting station to sign up, and yes I had smoked weed a few times, I had also been to family counceling for a few months. He told me not to mention any of this at MEPS. He said if they didn't disqualify me, I'd need a waiver. Then I might not be able to get in anyways. There were two other recruiters in the room at their desks, they heard all of this, and it just sounded like routine to them. He said they only check with the local police stations. I asked him about freud and all that, he told me they never check the medical files. He said they don't have access to them. So is this how things work everywhere? THe other recruiters didn't even raise an eye to anything he said. I know he just wants me to pass, and he probably needs his brownie points for the month. So I guess this is how it is, whether it's right or wrong. I'm thinking, the ARMY needs people so bad, they're not going to do a real in-deep background check, for FEAR of finding anything that would have to kick them out. I don't know.

prismx71@aol.com

[Anonymous]

I decided to see if it was at all possible to join the Army last Feb. I have an extensive history of epilepsy and heart problems. They have been non existant for the past 2 years and I have needed no medication but these were conditions that without a doubt disqualified me. I went in and talked to a recruiter and told him of my medical history and he asked me if I wanted to go in bad enough to lie about it all. At the time he told me nothing of the consequences and said that the most they would do was give me a general discharge but that it was almost impossible for them to find out and not to listen to the briefing at MEPS about fradulant enlistment. He made it seem like it was NO BIG DEAL and I went along with it. As my ship date grew closer I grew weary and called several other recruiters to see what they thought about my situation (I did not give them my name or my recruiters name). By them I was given a whole different story so I talked to the station commander about it and he also told me to lie. After I realized that it was a decision that I could not make and feel good about myself I went in and signed a DEP loss statement. I asked then his HONEST opinion and was told that I probably would have gotten as far as AIT and they would have found out and that recruiting was all about numbers and if I ship...I am a number. I am glad I did not make the decision to go in...it most likely would have turned out very bad for me. I could have lost my freedom (jail time), right to vote, some federal college loans.....the list is too long to post......... It's never a good thing to lie and especially when there is so much on the line.


:
: I was just at a recruiting station to sign up, and yes I had smoked weed a
: few times, I had also been to family counceling for a few months. He told
: me not to mention any of this at MEPS. He said if they didn't disqualify
: me, I'd need a waiver. Then I might not be able to get in anyways. There
: were two other recruiters in the room at their desks, they heard all of
: this, and it just sounded like routine to them. He said they only check
: with the local police stations. I asked him about freud and all that, he
: told me they never check the medical files. He said they don't have access
: to them. So is this how things work everywhere? THe other recruiters
: didn't even raise an eye to anything he said. I know he just wants me to
: pass, and he probably needs his brownie points for the month. So I guess
: this is how it is, whether it's right or wrong. I'm thinking, the ARMY
: needs people so bad, they're not going to do a real in-deep background
: check, for FEAR of finding anything that would have to kick them out. I
: don't know.