Capt. Kathleen Wilder- Female Green Beret

[dbwr]

Could somebody tell me about Cpt. Kathleen Wilder, the female who made it through Green Beret School in 1981?

[LTC TANKER]

She attended, but did not graduate. She sued in court and got a certificate of completion. She used a loophole in the regs, at the time, to get into the school. The reg was strengthened after this to keep females out of it.

Go to this site for more info:

http://forums.military.com/eve/forum.../3320044070001

[LTC William E. Bailey]

There are many rumors about Kathleen Wilder's foray into Special Forces training, some true and some untrue. She was an Intelligence officer assigned to 5th Special Forces Group, at that time stationed at Ft Bragg, NC. The 5th SFG(A) has since moved to Ft Campbell, KY. She was young, attractive, intelligent, and physically fit. She researched the regulations and the school requirements and nowhere did it say women could not attend. She applied to the school and was admitted either because of an error in admissions or because they couldn't legally keep her out. She attended all three phases of the course, but during the last week of the final phase she and two male students were caught caching their rucksacks. That is, she and her compatriots were not carrying the rucksacks as required by the instructors, but hiding them to pick up at a later time and date in what is referred to as a Mission Support Site (MSS). She and the other two students were dropped from the course ostensibly for cheating. It has been rumored that the hierarchy was looking for a reason to boot her out of the course. CPT Wilder then hired a civilian lawyer and sued the US Government and the Special Warfare Center & School for sex discrimination. Her lawyer pointed out that it was part of the curriculum to teach the use of an MSS, and that the Command was only looking for a reason to boot her out. The court agreed and the Command was ordered to provide her a course completion certificate, which they did. CPT Wilder never spent a single day in a Special Forces unit after that, as she was reassigned to attend the career course for Intelligence officers at Ft Huachuca, AZ, and then went on to other duties, until she left the military some years later.

[dbwr]

so------- she's really a Green Beret then? She passed the Q course and everything?!

I'm thinking if girls can at least make it to the last week of Specops training, they can at least make it through infantry school (??).

[LTC William E. Bailey]

A Green Beret is a hat. CPT Kathleen Wilder is not now nor has she ever been a hat. CPT Kathleen Wilder was authorized to wear a green beret while she was assigned to 5th Special Forces Group (ABN), since at that time it was unit issue and everyone assigned to a Special Forces unit, including the cooks and mechanics, wore the unit issued clothing and accoutrements. She never had her Branch changed to Special Forces, she has never been awarded the Special Forces Tab, and she was never awarded the Special Forces identifier. There is a considerable difference between receiving a graduation diploma and a course completion certificate. It isn't a given that because one girl made it almost through SF training, that "girls" can make it through Infantry training. There has never been any question that an infinitesimally small number of women could complete Infantry, Ranger, or SF training; however, that still doesn't make it a good idea.

[dbwr]

Did she make it through SERE and Robin Sage?

[LTC William E. Bailey]

Obviously she didn't make it through Robin Sage if she was dropped from the course for cheating while in Robin Sage. SERE School was a separate school at that time, and to the best of my knowledge she never attended another SOF School at SWCS.

[Lawdog]

A Green Beret is a hat.

With all due respect sir, the Green Beret is not just a hat, any more than the Marmeluke sword is just a knife.

A message from President Kennedy to General Yarborough later that day stated, "My congratulations to you personally for your part in the presentation today ... The challenge of this old but new form of operations is a real one and I know that you and the members of your command will carry on for us and the free world in a manner which is both worthy and inspiring. I am sure that the green beret will be a mark of distinction in the trying times ahead."

In an April 11, 1962, White House memorandum for the United States Army, President Kennedy showed his continued support for the Special Forces, calling the green beret

"a symbol of excellence, a badge of courage, a mark of distinction in the fight for freedom."

To honor his memory, Special Forces soldiers pay their respects to late President Kennedy by laying a wreath and green beret on his tomb every November twenty-second, the date of his assassination.

LD

[LTC William E. Bailey]

I am a retired Special Forces officer with over 22 years in Special Forces, and a combat veteran of Special Forces units on three occasions. Therefore, I believe I am better qualified to discuss the significance of the green beret than you, who have never worn it. When it was first approved by the Army, even before JFK visited Ft Bragg on 12 Oct 1961 and was confronted by BG William P. Yarborough wearing the beret he had specifically been ordered not to wear, the green beret was a "symbol of excellence". What you don't know is the complete history of the beret, which I lived. Shortly after wear of the hat was approved by the Army and JFK called it a symbol of excellence in a White House memorandum on 11 April 1962, it became unit issue. That means that rather than make it an individual award which each individual would wear as a permanent part of their uniform, it was issued to everyone in the unit, and when they left the unit they turned it in. In the mid-60's it wasn't unusual to see pregnant cooks, female supply sergeants, and truck drivers wearing the symbol of excellence. The green beret has developed into an icon, like the cowboy hat. Now one other thing, I didn't say the green beret was "just" a hat. I said a green beret is a hat, but that those soldiers who have earned the right to wear it are Special Forces soldiers.

[Lawdog]

I am a retired Special Forces officer with over 22 years in Special Forces, and a combat veteran of Special Forces units on three occasions. Therefore, I believe I am better qualified to discuss the significance of the green beret than you, who have never worn it. When it was first approved by the Army, even before JFK visited Ft Bragg on 12 Oct 1961 and was confronted by BG William P. Yarborough wearing the beret he had specifically been ordered not to wear, the green beret was a "symbol of excellence". What you don't know is the complete history of the beret, which I lived. Shortly after wear of the hat was approved by the Army and JFK called it a symbol of excellence in a White House memorandum on 11 April 1962, it became unit issue. That means that rather than make it an individual award which each individual would wear as a permanent part of their uniform, it was issued to everyone in the unit, and when they left the unit they turned it in. In the mid-60's it wasn't unusual to see pregnant cooks, female supply sergeants, and truck drivers wearing the symbol of excellence. The green beret has developed into an icon, like the cowboy hat. Now one other thing, I didn't say the green beret was "just" a hat. I said a green beret is a hat, but that those soldiers who have earned the right to wear it are Special Forces soldiers.

I think you let your vitrol for Wilder or her situation colour your comment. Would you take offense if someone asked you "Were you a green beret?" or if a young man said "Wow, you were a green beret."

I am retired from the military as well. I was a black beret, and that fact and the symbolism behind it was, and is important to me. When I was a younger man the honour of that symbol got me into all sorts of trouble.

Perhaps the other poster should have asked "was Wilder a Special Forces soldier?", but you cannot expect that precise a question from any poster.

If somebody asked me if I was "a black beret", I'd answer "Damned right I was."

LD