intl.htm

What's the military like in your country?
(Non-US armed forces submissions only)

Posted: 5 Apr 00: "In response to 15 Mar 2000 post 'Military Women in Australia'"

An ex Royal Navy Lieutenant, I am currently serving as a FLTLT in the Royal Australian Air Force. Having benefited from an overview of the military in both the North and South hemisphere, I can assure you that

    -    ADG is still not open to females, however recently in East Timor when women were performing the duties of Airfield Defence, the ADG were not.
    -    There are now a few female aircrew on F-111. I am unaware of the exact number.
    -    Last season, the leader of the Roulettes (RAAF display team) was a female.
    -    There are still some courses not open to female i.e. Para course.

The recruiting staff are selected for that purpose and am surprised at the lack of support received. Perhaps the male testosterone levels are nearly bursting at the amount of women exercising their legal right to maternity benefits. Occasionally, repeat occasionally, it can be abused - I have seen it and can understand the skeptical attitudes of males at times. Not a reason just an attempt at an explanation. Good luck with your application

- the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) DOES have combat restrictions in that women are ineligible for service as an 'Airfield Defence Guard (ADG)', role description as follows:

'ADGs are employed on operational combat ground defence tasks and instructional duties within and around air bases and installations. Instructional duties include weapon handling, ground defence battle minor tactics, general service instruction, field operations, field living, combat survival and land search and rescue training." (ref.: http://defencejobs.defence.gov.au/raaf/rgadg.htm)

- additionally, I was informed during 1998 that the female pilot undergoing conversion to fly F111's did not complete the course. I cannot guarantee the accuracy of this rumour, suffice to say if it is true the RAAF *still*

The thrust of the original posting is interesting though, given that I am currently awaiting commission in the RAAF (when a position becomes available), and I have mixed feelings about my recruitment experience. I am

a university graduate, with a high IQ, experience in management and am in my mid-20's. Additionally, I have a family background in the services. I feel I am an excellent proposition to all three services of the Australian

Defence Force (ADF). Whilst I intially had leanings towards the RAAF, I felt I should research all of my options with regard to my desire to serve my country in the ADF. I interviewed with the Navy, who were quite openly hostile towards my enquiry, perhaps it was a personal thing. The body language during my recruiting interview was (in hindsight) almost laughable. The two gentlemen interviewing me faced each other and lounged back in their seats as though they were on a P&O cruise or something. I'm not sure if they cared about the impression *they* were giving *me*! Next was the Army - they were OK, couldn't give me a specific list of officer career's that women are eligible for and jokingly suggested that it would be 'anti-EEO' (equal employment opportunity) to be so explicit about what jobs were divided purely by gender.

Whilst I chose the RAAF, it wasn't all plain sailing with them either. I initially wished to pursue a career in Air Defence (Fighter Control) and found it interested that I was encouraged to apply for a Administration Officer or Supply Officer position as 'this is where most female officers choose to join' and 'it is easier to get pregnancy leave in these roles'. Unbelievably huh?! At the end of the day, I actually have chosen to pursue Supply - based on better civilian opportunities after my defence time is complete, a wider range of sub-specialties and better use of my strengths as an employee.

Whilst I feel I deal with discrimination (subtle or explicit) with little trouble - I felt that my experience was an interesting one and contributes to the arguement proposed by the original poster. I was deterred by the attitude and lack of true 'recruiting' from the RAN and most certainly by the lack of career opportunities in the Australian Army (not to itimate that I would be seeking a combat role anyway...).

Women in combat is coming to the fore as a political 'hot potato' in Australia currently & I will endeavour to follow this (mammoth - sorry) posting up with some more specific info.

Posted: 11 Jun 99: "In Response to the 19 Dec 97 Post 'Military Women in Australia;"

Yes nearly half of the officer intake to the Australian Defence Force may be female (47.5%) However in my three years at the Australian Defence Force Academy two of my female colleauges committed suicide and all bar four of my female friends left during the first three years. Since then we have all left the defence force. CONDITIONS are not that good!!!! That explains the percentage of of serve females as 24.5%

I would just like to comment on the amount of abuse that has gone on internationally and think that all of these countries should hook up some how. Anyone from Austrailia, Japan, UK, Spain and other countries, should contact STAMP at drsph@aol.com, or call Ann Margaret Dickey at 1-506-357-6454

In 1988, the Human Rights Tribunal ruled that DND was discriminating against women by closing certain trades to them. This was important because only certain jobs allow for progression to the highest ranks and thus have influence over policy. (i.e., You can't be commander of the navy if you have never been to sea.) At the time, DND was given ten years to become more integrated. The Establishment believed then that just lifting the barriers would be sufficient to promote equality of numbers. Sadly, in 1996 DND realized that it would fail miserably to have sufficient numbers of women to satisfy the HRT. And so a recruiting drive for women was launched.

It is important to put the issue of gender integration in perspective. In 1989 the Cold War ended, and the policy gurus were trying to focus on the new paradigm of defence politics. That meant a Gulf War, and the Balkans sliding into chaos (1991). In 1992, the CF deployed to Bosnia in a vain attempt to curb genocide. With a burgeoning deficit, the government at home slashed our budget and closed some bases. Missions to Cambodia and Africa in 1993. Restored the monarchy and democracy in Cambodia. Nearly got ourselves killed in Rwanda in the midst of another genocide (1994). More bases closed. More cuts. Demining in Kuwait. Still working the Golan Heights between Israel and Syria. Cambodia demining. In 1995, CF personnel numbers were reverse-engineered to say force of 60,000 is sufficient (to meet budget constraints). 85,000 had been employed in 1992. More bases closed. Somali murder hits the press; two years of self-imolation and examination. Saguenay flood, Winnipeg flood. Ice storm 98. And Bosnia, Bosnia, Bosnia. Now Kosovo.

So things have been a little busy on the operations side. On the policy side, the Federal Cabinet took 7 years to agree on things like ships, subs, and helicopters. (They are still arguing over the Armoured Combat Vehicle (it is NOT a "tank"; we cannot call it that)) Without the platform equipment established, it is hard to figure out your personnel forecast on paper (ie # pilots, seamen, maintenance crew, etc.) Those numbers were continually being slashed.

Rather late in the game, a policy person saw that the 1998/99 Women targets were going to be missed. Hence the recruiting drive for women in combat roles now.

Just phone your recruiting centre (yellow pages) and ask them to send you some info. Your school guidance office should have some material too. The life you see in the media does not reflect what most of us see and live. It is NOT all debauchery and partying. Most of us are working very hard, and love our jobs. It is actually enjoyable working alongside your peers in a specialist world. You have your own lingo, and everyone fits into their roles as part of an elite team.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by reaching out to new things. It will be hard, no doubt about that! But it is fun too.

On the 26 May 97, I applied for the naval reserves. I waited for 6 months for a phone call regarding any indication of myself being sworn in let alone joining a holding platoon or QL2 course. During the 6 month period, I encountered many problems with the recruiters. One of many, my file could not be located. Throughout the many interviews with officers, they did mention several times the need for women in combat roles. I would/could not join as a combat role for the simple fact, I would not be an asset to the team and would eventually become a burden for physical and emotional reasons. I know many other women in the military, like myself, who feel the same way. As for women segregated in PT and among other things you mentioned, this is not a good idea. The only way for women to feel equal is to treat them equally. In all physical aspects, I'm the farthest thing from an army stereotype (I used to be in ballet, if that gives you an idea). But, in the QL2 course I'm currently in, I feel very confident when I know I am one the last, few people running with our course commander, or when I achieve one of the highest PT scores. To meet a high male standard is my drive when it comes to physical issues, and the male candidates encourage this. This attitude, on both male and female sides creates a more positive, equal-orientated team.

I agree with you totally when it comes to double standards in the army. I am disgusted at what they (who ever they are) are trying to do to the army. I am not quite sure about the American army, however, I am in the Canadian Army reserves (infantry). Right now I am the only female in my infantry company. the others don't last because they aren't willing to work for it. They think they should have special privileges because of their sex. The question I always ask myself is why are they there if they don't want to do the work. When females start getting special treatment, the morale of the troops suffers.

I want to clarify a point made by Post 19 Dec 97. I found out in the RAN recruitment process that women cannot serve in the fleet's guided missile destroyers (all of which were commissioned in the 1960s), or the older Oberon class submarines (commissioned between 1969 and 1978), as the "facilities are not there to be able to accommodate women". These ships have a combined company of 900 or more personnel (according to one of the RAN's publications). It is of concern that the fact that these are "male-only" ships is not readily publicised by the RAN, particularly in their recruitment brochures. A male acquaintance (not in the military) asks, "You mean they haven't worked out where to put the sanitary bins in all these years?"

I read all the messages here and I see that the reasons for making the military life a career are almost the same for me as it is for you. I joined the Brazilian Air Force 13 years ago and I'm still here because I still love the mystic, the order, discipline and all other things that are part of the military life. I am also proud because I am one of the first military women in Brazil, and we are opening the way for other women who want to join the military life.

I am a Political Science Professor at Oklahoma State University. I am doing research that compares women's rights in Western Europe, South and Southeast Asia, and Latin America, and one of the things that I am trying to find out is in which countries can women serve in the military, either in combat or non-combat positions, and in which countries are women prohibited from serving in the military. If anyone can lead me to a source or set of sources that will provide me with this information, I would really appreciate it. Thank you. -- Patty Hipsher, e-mail: hipshep@okway.okstate.edu

The Canadian Forces has till Feb 99 to increase the amount of Females in combat arms i.e., infantry, armour, artillery, & engineers, by about 500. The Committee of Human Rights is forcing the government to recruit more women so the percentage will be 25% across the board. As an instructor (male) in the Basic Infantry School in Wainwright, I already see the resentment starting to begin. We don't know if they will have an all female or a mixed course. The OC said that they will have a "precourse" of just PT for the females. At the moment that is one of the biggest problems we have with the female recruits. The other biggest problem is that the recruiters lie or almost force these females into the infantry.

Thought I'd update any interested people on what I understand the present situation of military women to be in Australia. I should point out that I'm not a soldier, just an interested observer.

I'm not certain what the present total percentage of women is in the ADF (Australian Defence Force), but I know it's larger than in America.

I do know that the present intake of female officer trainees, of all combined forces, is 48 percent. That's not a misprint -- forty eight percent, nearly half. Which creates, as I see it, an interesting dilemma for Australian military officials in the near future. Let me explain.

Combat exclusions for women in the ADF vary depending upon the service branch. The Air Force has no combat exclusions, and women are free to serve as fighter pilots, if qualified. To the best of my knowledge, only one woman has so far done so -- an F-one-eleven pilot who recently underwent a conversion course from a different aircraft type.

The Navy's only exclusion is for Navy divers (who do nothing more than dive, there being no equivalent to SEALS in the RAN). Women serve on combat vessels of all kinds, in increasingly large numbers, including the latest Collins class submarines.

The Army, however, excludes women from just about every ground combat position -- artillery, armour, and infantry.

And so the dilemma is this -- fully half of the available officer talent pool is now female. The most ambitious and talented of those women will undoubtedly be drawn towards those positions that offer them the best chance of promotion and advancement, i.e.; frontline combat positions. The army does not offer such spots for those women, and as such, it is quite conceivable that most of these best and brightest will choose a career in the Air Force or Navy instead.

If women were only 20-30 percent of the junior officer pool, then the Army would probably be unconcerned. But 50 percent is a lot. If all of the best of that 50 percent are going elsewhere, then talent drain from the Army's officer ranks becomes a real issue. There is no guarantee that the Army will be able to attract a disproportionate number of young male officers to make up for its inability to attract the best female officers.

And so it seems to me that the Australian Army may one day be forced to remove some of these service restrictions, in order to keep their overall officer-talent at a par with the other two services. I doubt it's something many top Army chiefs would have previously considered having to face, since they probably never envisioned that the percentage of new female officers would ever get quite this large.

If there are any Australian military people out there, or just other interested observers, who have any information or observations they'd like to add to this (or corrections, for that matter), I'd be interested to hear from you.

I am curious to know about other women out there are serving in the military of their respective countries. Most Western countries allow women to serve, although the extent of combat roles varies greatly. In the US for example, one may be a fighter pilot, but not crew a tank. (Singapore, obviously has no such qualms.) In Canada, no legal barriers have existed for the past decade. The UK has several female fighter pilots. Israel has refused that same job for reservist women, but I am unsure of their regular forces.

So what changes are happening in all other countries, (if any)? Italy may be opening up its National Forces to women volunteers soon. The Netherlands (which has appeared to be the most liberal military for a long time) is banishing conscription; has all operational roles (less submarine, marines) open to women. In Sweden, women currently serve in artillery, anti-air roles, and submarines. As countries amend their national priorities with the end of the Cold War, has this affected your service?

A few figures of women in Regular Forces:
Australia 13.4%; Canada 10.4%; Netherlands 3.3%; Sweden 1.3%; UK 8.4%

The Singapore Army is a conscript army and all able-bodied males between the ages of 18 and 20 are drafted to serve in the military for two and a half years. Needless to say, all my male counterparts in high school were drafted right after finishing high school. They will only get to attend college after serving their term in the military.

My name's Arlene and I'm a 2nd Lieutenant (soon to be promoted to Full Lieutenant!) in the Singapore Army. I enlisted the same time as many of my male friends. Why did I do it? Honestly, I thought it'd be a fun way to pass time before I headed to college and, more importantly, the Singapore Armed Forces offered me an attractive scholarship to study in the US. (I am now studying at Dartmouth College) So I thought, "What the heck, I'll just do it for the fun of it and if I hate it, I'll just drop out." Little did I realize that I was to embark on an adventure of a lifetime and fall in love with the military...

I entered Basic Military Training (BMT) on the 12th of January. Initiation period was hell for us because we were specially chosen to do our BMT in Officer Cadet School (OCS). Ironically, the female officers training us put the most pressure on us. Yelling at us, taunting us .... the sergeants and male officers were often more sympathetic. I suppose we had to prove ourselves. We trained in a female company ("G" or Golf Company, though I often wonder whether it really stands for something else) for the first and second phase of training. OCS, being a tri-service school, had all Air Force, Navy and Army cadets training together in the initial phase. Because my buddy and myself were the only two cadets that decided to stay on in the Army, we were part of a male company the rest of our training phases. I must say I enjoyed training with the men and I made it my constant goal to outshine the male cadets. I was commissioned early because they had to send me to the US for college.

This past summer, I have had the opportunity to go back to Singapore to train and I am indeed privileged that I have been approved to be trained as Singapore's first female Tank Officer. I dare not say how that will turn out because I am yet to prove myself. Deep down inside me, I know I will. I must. I cannot fail. I WILL SUCCEED.

I will be in the Army at least till 2008 but I suspect that it will turn out to be a life-long affair. I am still young, but I love my country and I love the Army. Perhaps I will be making contributions here for many years to come....

But before I end, I must relate how once at the beginning of Secondary School, I had tried to get my Principal ( who happened to be a nun) whether I could start a National Cadet Corps unit for girls in the school. She told me to be a Girl Guide (Girl Scout). She told me that young ladies don't go running around in cams. I was loath to agree with her, until I joined the Army. Ironically, it was then that I realized that she was right: only REAL women will run around in cams. ;)

Non-U.S./International Section