Motherhood and the Military Was No Mix For Me — I used to be a mother in the Navy. I got out when my son was 8 months old. I used to love the Navy but after I had my son the Navy just didn’t seem to fit in my life anymore. I was devastated about going back to work after my six weeks of maternity leave were up. The next few months were the most stressful of my life. I hated spending time away from him and it made me angry at everybody including myself. If I wasn’t at work then I was preparing for work or catching up with household chores and spent very little quality time with my baby. I would not recommend anybody being a mother in the Navy. In my experience it shortchanged the Navy and my son. Instead of finishing my sea duty, which was where I belonged and what the Navy trained me to do, I had to get off of the ship at 20 weeks pregnant and remain on a shore duty admin job until they finally decided that I had to get out (because I did not have adequate child care for both my husband and I to be on simultaneous sea duty). This ended up being two years before my original six year contract. It shortchanged my son in that he had to spend so much time away from me and see me stressed out and upset all the time. I was reading where people emailed their “day in the life of a military woman” and though I know some people thrive on being constantly on the go, I could tell you I don’t miss any of those days. I felt I had to compete between the Navy and my son and feel guilty about having to take care of my own kid when he was sick. The mere thought of having to return to sea duty and leave my son for any length of time was the worst thing I ever went through. I am much happier being a stay at home mom and am thankful every minute of the day that the Navy decided to let me go. I’ve learned alot more about my son and about myself now that I can actually take a breather now and then. I am speaking of my own experience and saying what has worked best for me and I am not indicating that everybody else is wrong. I think that everyone should do what they feel is right for them and their children. I just hope that the military women who are contemplating whether or not to become mothers before hanging up their uniforms get all points of view on the subject.
Wanted To Stay In But Was Forced Out — I have been reading the comments, and would like to let you know why I was forced out not because of bad performance but because I was pregnant, yes in my day in the Marine Corp you were forced to leave if you exercised your God given right to bear children, and by the way I was married and made to feel that I had done something dirty. I would not give up the memories or the way I feel about the Marine Corp VERY PROUD to have served.
Main Thread. Comments follow:
“Why I Will Leave the Army” — As a single female I have so many reasons for leaving that I do not know where to begin. For one, most of the single soldiers quarters that I have seen are deplorable. They have us living in a box with absolutely no privacy at all. Certainly people tend to acquire furniture and other belongings over the years, but we have nowhere to store them. Therefore many single people don’t own much of anything. Evidently, we should be able to just put on our ruck sack and move from place to place in a moment’s notice. Single people are always scuffled around in the barracks. I have seen people switch rooms 3 or 4 times in six months. We have the right to some stability too. I have not yet had an actual roommate yet, but I cannot imagine sharing the same bedroom with someone. I have a boyfriend and I go to college, I do not see how I can do either one of these with someone else in my room. Married people have their privacy, so I think we should be entitled to ours. First Sergeants love to do room inspections in the barracks. Why do only the single people have their privacy invaded. I am 27 years old, I certainly do not need someone snooping around me room. If one treats people like children, they will act like children. I understand if there are a couple problem soldiers, go bug them, not me.
Then there are the “hey you” details. Just because I am single does not mean that I do not have a life. Quite the contrary, I have completed my associate degree and am almost finished with my bachelor’s and I have traveled to 17 countries in my 2 years here in Germany. For some reason, the military seems to convey that if you do not have children, your life is basically meaningless (not that they treat many families very well either, but it seems that you all have touched enough on that.) For some reason, single people just don’t know what life is really about. Well, I believe that I do know what life is about, that is exactly why I do not have children. The army also does not believe that a boyfriend or any “significant other” is an important or valid relationship. No, you must be married in order for your partner to be recognized. I have been seeing my boyfriend for almost 2 years, of course our relationship is valid. So what that we refuse to sign a piece of paper. Neither one of us will give the army the satisfaction.
It is true, I signed the enlistment papers, but how on earth was I to really know what army life was like. I just think that single people deserve to be treated with a little more respect. Generally speaking, single people cost the army next to nothing to support compared to the average family, but we are treated the worse. I would think that the army would rather retain the cheaper labor.
Another thing that really bugs me is the way many military people treat people that have different views compared to the normal conservative ones. I have been a vegetarian since I was 15 and I have NEVER been asked why I was until I joined the army. The concept of vegetarianism is completely foreign, evidently. I have been ridiculed and made fun of so much just because I don’t eat meat. Who really cares anyway. I don’t run around telling people they shouldn’t eat meat or make moo noises. I can’t believe people are so uncomfortable with who they are.
I thought that the military was supposed to be teaching people about tolerance. They shove these “Consideration of Others” classes down our throats, but it doesn’t seem like anyone is learning anything. I am a single, childless female, vegetarian, an atheist, a feminist and the military hates me! If I didn’t feel like such an alien I probably would stay in. Just because I am different does not mean that I am a bad person. The world is full of all sorts of people that are different. If we were all the same, life would be so boring!!
RESPONSE #1: – I am no longer in the service and I served honorably for 20 years. The Army is the Army. If you were going in to be with your mother, big mistake. Single soldiers DO NOT get the shaft as you say. They are treated differently than married soldiers. I think the military was still voluntary when you joined. When you join the military, you live under a different set of rules and you also lose some of your rights. But, remember, you joined and were not drafted. I may have a different view if you had been drafted, but… Single soldiers ARE NOT harassed for their differences but probably because they want different treatment than is offered when you joined. I don’t give a rat’s behind about your term “pro-sexism” and don’t even know what it means. You mention that I only believe in round pegs in round holes; however, you joined under those rules. Consideration of Others is another “touchy feely” term from the politically correct crowd. You appear to want NCOs to be treated the same as officers. Spare me. If you want to be treated as an officer, you should have become an officer. The barracks are not horrible. Granted, they aren’t the Holiday Inn but I don’t think anyone promised you that. If you only joined because of financial reasons, that is fine but don’t blame the system which has been in place for a long time. I would reply with your own words: “There is a better way – open your eyes and become part of the solution instead of part of the problem.” Signed: SFC/Retired
RESPONSE #2: Spare me all the whining about having so many reasons to leave the service. You first are unhappy with the living arrangements. If you want a mansion or a resort hotel, you came to the wrong place. Living quarters in the military were for living in not basking in. If they do not suit you, leave the army and go buy your own house. You complain about privacy and that you have none. Awwwww! You stated that you had acquired furniture and other belongings over the years and had no place to put it. If you had no place to put it, why did you acquire it? You next complained about the treatment of single women in the service and implied that married people got better treatment. Do you have both single and married soldiers in the barracks? You state you have not had a roommate yet but cannot imagine living with someone else in the same bedroom. Then you state you have a boyfriend and go to college and stated you couldn’t see how you could do either one of these with someone else in your room. Pity! Can you share your room with your boyfriend? Selective thinking. Next you complain about room inspections and that single soldiers had their privacy invaded. You say you are 27 years old- no kidding — and do not need someone snooping around in your room. Well, I wonder if you have given the First Sergeant reason to be concerned. They don’t do these inspections for no reason. You say that you are treated like a child. Perhaps, you are acting like one. Your post sounds like it. I am certainly impressed with the facts that you have finished your associate degree and are working on your bachelor’s and have traveled to 17 countries in Germany but you are not the only person who has done these things while in the military. Because you did all this doesn’t mean you should get special treatment. I quote the next line verbatim: “For some reason, the military seems to convey that if you do not have children, your life is basically meaningless (not that they treat many families very well either, but it seems that you all have touched enough on that.) For some reason single people just don’t know what life is really about. Well, I believe that I do know what life is about, that is exactly why I do not have children.” This poster was under the impression that you didn’t have children because you weren’t married. Go figure. You are miffed because the military does not recognize your “boyfriend” or “significant other” seriously. They do recognize married couples. The military is not a social experiment. I don’t care how many years you have been with him. If you don’t want to marry him, don’t blame the Army for not recognizing him as a valid relationship. They do recognize marriage. I’m sure the Army is out to get you and your boyfriend. Next you say: “It is true, I signed the enlistment papers, but how on earth was I to really know what army life was like.” You could have talked to your recruiter. Mine made it sound worse than it was. It is common knowledge that when you join the Army, you live under a different set of rules. You also lose some of your rights but at the same time you get many benefits which you do not recognize. You state: “I just think that single people deserve to be treated with a little more respect.” Respect is earned and is not an entitlement. You think that it is cheaper to keep single people in the service and that may be true but if you do not want to be treated as a single person, get married to “the” boyfriend. Then you complained about people treating you differently because you are… “a single, childless female, vegetarian, an atheist, and the military hates me!” You forgot to say “with a chip on your shoulder.” Spare me that whining. You wonder how come people are uncomfortable with who they are but it appears it is you that is uncomfortable. Sounds like everyone else is out of step except you. The military is not a social experiment and shouldn’t be used as such. You say you feel like an alien and it is no wonder. You don’t like anything about the Army and are determined to whine until it is unbearable to those of us who enjoyed our time in the military. From you post, it appears you should have NEVER joined the military. I have no idea what you were expecting — a sorority? Sorry but the world is full of all sorts of people that are different and they manage to get along and move on. Time for you to grow up and get out of the Army.
RESPONSE TO RESPONSE #2: I certainly hope that you are either no longer on active duty or never were on active duty. The Army does not value it’s human assets. Single soldiers do, more often than not, get the proverbial shaft. The Army raises soldiers who don’t care about where they live by the way they treat them. Single soldiers are put into barracks and made to share their whole lives with near strangers. They are made to perform “hey you” details just because they are near at hand when the Arms room alarms break or what-not. Soldiers in general are not allowed to be a little different be it vegetarianism or an off-beat religion. They are harassed for their differences and made to feel less than. Your post leads me to wonder if you know the definition of pro-sexism because the types of things you espouse make me believe that you only recognize the round pegs in the round holes and you not only accept the white, male mindset but also promote it yourself. That is sad. Consideration of Others training is not just something to endure. CO2 training is meant to help all people feel valued by sharing other points of view so that we can all respect diversity. It’s not “touchy feely” training. If you’d back up and realize that if all junior NCOs were treated similarly to junior officers that the junior soldiers would have a reason to work toward becoming NCOs and we’d have a more productive, satisfied force. The complaints this former soldier cited are valid and many former soldiers feel the same way. Many soldiers get married to escape the barracks because it IS miserable. The Army subtly promotes marriage and these soldiers either succumb or they get out. So we’re left with a force whose commitment is based on financial need more than dedication. There is a better way – open your eyes and become part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Signed: SFC/USA
Fed Up — Well, I am currently active army, going on 3 years. I know without a doubt that I will be getting out. First of all the military is supposed to have high family values. I just got married to another active army soldier, we married because we are in love. The rest of the soldiers and their spouses who cheat really irritate me. It seems like cheating is okay and almost everyone does it. I do not want to be surrounded by these type of people. Also, I feel like I’m in grade school again. There’s a war going on and all people around here can think about is ‘scoring’. I work with a sergeant of another branch in the military who is also married with kids. Every day I have to listen to his adventures and comments, boy, if I only knew his wife’s phone number. I am currently in Saudi and my husband is deployed elsewhere, he is in infantry and I worry about him. I was told that I should have know this could happen when I joined and should not comment on it anymore! I’m trying to think like a soldier, I’m proud that my husband and I are serving our country, but on the other hand, I am only human and I’m not supposed to worry about the love of my life?! Also, I am a SPC, it took me 26 months to get my rank, and why?…because they had to. I am a hard worker and have never been in trouble, never missed a formation, and never received a bad counseling. All the NCO’s I’ve ever worked for have praised me on my professionalism. Well last year I started experiencing severe pain when running, turns out I have endometriosis. Well I have my good run days and my bad days, even on the worst of the bad days, I will run the same distance as everyone else, it may take me longer, but I’m a soldier, this is the kind of mentality I have now…’do what needs to be done, don’t be a quitter’. Until my end of contract, I will continue to run even though I know it’s hurting my body, pain like that is not normal. This is one reason I was not promoted early. Even though I was not on profile, I was not let to take a PT test. The other reason…my detachment sergeant said she would not sign my waiver because all I did at work was sit at my desk and code, I’m not sociable. Well excuse me! The perky outgoing people that do less than a half assed job at work are truly the ones that get noticed. The people that take up their slack are never noticed. Frankly, I can’t take another enlistment of unfaithful soldiers, soldiers that don’t believe in the seven army values, higher enlisted that forgot where they started out, and the officers that take their word for everything, and the poor leadership.
Motherhood in the Army — I am currently in the US Army with 8 years under my belt and for any woman who is thinking about joining…..think long and hard. The military has it’s advantages like education benefits and so on, but let me tell you something, being stationed in another country away from your family is not something many people want to do. I am in a situation where I am on assignment for an unaccompanied tour to Korea and I have two children, a 6-month old and 4 year old. My four year old is an exceptional family member who requires special needs, my husband works 80% of the time and I handle everything concerning my daughter’s needs. I decided that since I only have about 16 months left in the military that it would be in the best interest of my family if I requested a voluntary separation. I am aware of the fact that at some point in everyone’s military career an unaccompanied tour will come up, but I feel that a military member, regardless of branch of service should have the option to separate as long as they don’t have alot of time left on their contract. My family comes first and the military is treating me like they don’t care. Last but not least, I have no options…well I take that back, I can either commit a crime and get out of the assignment to Korea but that will also land me in jail, I can go out and include myself under one of the Army’s legit chapters, stay at my current duty station and be considered AWOL or forget about the hardship my family will go through and take the tour. My family is always first!!!!!!
Navy Junior Officer Submits Resignation — Navy Officers have to submit a resignation letter in order to get out of the military. It’s not as simple as not re-enlisting and getting out at your EAOS. Part of this resignation letter is a statement of why you want to resign. I’ve actually submitted TWO resignations. As you can see from reading them, my reasons are quite varied, even though it was only two years apart. Life changes, people change. There is no simple answer as to why I’m getting out. I don’t even think these two letters accurately express why I’m getting out. I am an EXTREMELY patriotic person and planned on making the Navy a career, but as I said, things change. Letter number one, dated 08 Jan 99: “The past 4 years have provided me with an experience for which I will be eternally grateful. The Navy has been a period of tremendous growth, but I have realized that my goals, which include an education in the visual arts, do not match my career options in the Navy. My naval education, both at the Academy and in the fleet, has provided me with the tools that will aid me not only in my future profession, but in my personal life as well. For this reason, I submit my resignation with no negative feelings towards the Navy, but rather with a desire to move on and excel in my new chosen occupation. During my years in the Navy, I have served on two different ships, filling very diverse roles, from engineering to administration. I have completed two Mediterranean Deployments in which I have participated in events such as a real non-combatant evacuation, during operation Silver Wake, and as a NATO flagship, while serving with Standing Naval Forces Mediterranean. While many officers submit their resignation packages citing various negative aspects of the Navy, I simply wish to reflect on the exceptional experiences and training I have received. I have had ambitions of being a naval officer from a very young age and my every expectation has been met. For this reason, my resignation does not come easily but I feel it is a necessary step in my life. My ambition and motivation remain, but my goals have changed.”
Letter number two, dated 08 Jan 01: “My decision to leave the Navy comes after years of thought. While the Navy has offered me job security, an exceptional education and unsurpassed opportunities and challenges, I feel it is time for me to move on. I joined the Navy with the wide-eyed anticipation of commanding a ship someday; however, my goals and focus have changed after accumulating 5 1/2 years of experience. I have served under some of the best and worst leaders in the Navy. Countless dollars were spent teaching me proper leadership techniques at the Naval Academy, but I see those practices rarely followed. I had the privilege of briefly serving under the best Commanding Officer to which I have ever been exposed. His ideas were textbook and produced an unusually high shipboard esprit de corps. He allowed and expected everyone to do their job. He cared more for the ship and crew than his own career. In turn, the crew did everything possible to ensure the ship and the CO looked good. Unfortunately, my experience has shown this Commanding Officer is not typical. Several other Commanding Officers alleged support of the ship and its crew but
demonstrated in only when it had a positive effect on their fitness reports. Micromanaging seems to be the rule, rather than the exception. The end result was these COs spent numerous hours doing everyone else’s job, leaving the crew feeling useless and defeated and ultimately causing a gap in their career education. Eventually, this creates a lack of trust and many excellent officers and enlisted seek employment elsewhere. As I watch outstanding officers and sailors leave the Navy, I see an increasing potential for serving under and alongside people with poor leadership ability and an innate tendency to micromanage. Another major reason for submitting my resignation comes from the hardship and strain sea duty has caused me. Short of listing any personal problems, I will simply state that I have no desire to return to sea duty. This may seem like an insignificant predicament, however, the success of the Navy relies on the desire of it’s
people to excel and serve with unwavering devotion. After one shore and two sea duty tours, I am currently at a crossroad in my career. I have completed my minimum obligation to the Navy and must now decide how I want my future to unfold. I cannot deny the wonderful opportunities the Navy has provided me. I have met incredible people and visited amazing places. My love of this country has only been intensified. Yet, I feel my future happiness lies outside the Navy.”
I Left the Army After 14 Years — I was honorably discharged from the Army after 14 years of unquestioning service. I held many diverse job positions and travelled the world. I was a truck driver, a dual military service member, a single parent, a drill sergeant, a movement NCO in Korea, and various other positions as the need arose and my capabilities were required. I was selected for special assignments to England, Somalia, Honduras and Korea. I was stationed at highly mobile posts, such as Fort Drum and Fort Knox. I served a hardship tour in Korea as a single parent and had to leave my children for a year. I went to school at night and earned a degree. My APFT score was not the 300 max, but an average raising score of 291. I attended every school they would send me to and finished as the Honor Graduate or on the Commandant’s List.
I lived and loved the Army…until the day, my Command Sergeant Major called me in her office. She chewed me up on side and then the other. I had done nothing to deserve being berated in this manner. I was not allowed to rebut or explain, she had the wrong person in here. While I was standing there being ripped apart at parade rest, I flashed back on my career and accomplishments. I thought about how I hurt every day in my hips, back and knees, because I never wanted to “fall out” or “ride a profile”. I looked at my ribbons, citations, combat patches, awards and the lack of the CSM’s and/or my First Sergeant’s. I thought of how I had been shot at, barely missed by artillery fire, waited with fellow soldiers for medevac, and watched my squad mates die. I lamented all the times I had put my family on hold or second to the Army. I wondered if I had done all those things, just to stand there and be treated like this. I decided
then and there, I was leaving the Army. I realized I was finished getting up at o’dark-thirty and putting on the green.
This turned out to be one of the best decisions of my life. I went back to school and six months later the VA assessed my service connected injuries at 50% compensable disability because of the arthritis in my hips, back and knees. The VA reimbursed my educational expenses and finished paying for my school. They will continue to pay me disability benefits for the rest of my life and provide me with 100% medical care. I am now working at a great company in Missouri, and have the time my family and I deserve. My family has my time and attention, which they so richly deserve.
Do I miss the Army life? Hell, yes! Would I go back, if given the opportunity? Hell, no! I did as much in 14 years as most do in 20+. I consider myself medically retired. I just went about it in a round about way. I still think positive about the military and the lessons it has to offer. I encourage my children to join active/reserve/guard, any service. Even though, every morning I wake up with pain. I wouldn’t trade the experience for anything.
I still run as much as possible. I stay fit, stand straight and walk proud. I doubt I will ever stop moving with my fingers joined and my thumb on the first joint of my index finger. Because I will always at heart be a Drill Sergeant, an NCO,…a Soldier.
17 Years and Still a Mom First — A military woman is a tough act but a military woman and mom is quite a different story. To add to this I was a single mom after my first 2 years active service. I was alone with a baby in Bremerhaven, Germany. WOW!
The Army taught me love, it taught me value, and it taught me survival skills. Not only those used in the field. It has not been easy but I felt like my “family” was replaced in a way by the military system. I had my share of discrimination and condescendence but for the most part, it was a great place for me to be as a single mom. Structure. That is was children need and LOVE number one. We got that from the Army.
I have now gotten out after 17 years because the reasons that I was there were not valid any longer. My son, now in high school was starting his second year as a freshman in High school after 10 moves in 13 years and had already felt the pain of repeating a grade in the seventh due to military moves. Now a 6″3″ 230 pound freshman (again) I had to rethink my life and why I was living it the way I was.
When my son asked so softly, “Mom, can I stay with Uncle Joe for high school in Texas?” I felt pain first because I could not imagine not being with my son for those 4 years although I had been separated from him so many times with deployments and field duty. I just cried and cried and sent him to Unca’s house and then commenced to having anxiety attacks that I thought were heart attacks. I couldn’t do it any longer.
For my son (? or me…) I exited military service with a hardship discharge after 17 years of service and I don’t regret one minute of either decision. I loved being a soldier and I love being a mom. I am just a civilian mom now! Life is an ever changing festival and mine has been blessed.
“Why I Left After 14 1/2 Years” — I left because having to teach junior officers their job and then be told to stay in my own pay grade (E-6). Well, boy, did he look stupid when I stopped watching his back and let him fall on his face (especially after he lowered by evals.) It was great watching him get chewed out all the time. That taught him well for not relying on his senior enlisted. He didn’t last long. Two years later he resigned his commission. A lot of the officers forget that the senior enlisted is what makes or breaks them.
I have read many of the pros and cons of the military live from everyone on this list. I joined the military because I wanted a change of career and I was promised a variety of experience and challenging work. However, I have not found that to be true. As a direct commission you are look down upon and you must wait your turn for the high visibility work. It does not matter that the senior Caption is a idiot. It only matter that he has served his time. Competency does not matter in the military. Only that you are have served your time.
You all complain about civilian life and trying to get insurance to pay for medical expenses. In the military you are limit in your options of medical treatments. One dental cleaning a year is insufficient. You are not given a choice in terms of your medication. We are not afforded the best medical care. We cannot even sue a doctor for malpractice.
Additionally, I do not like the male mindset of a majority of the senior officers. A majority of their spouses do not work and they also feel that other women should not work. These wives have no life (beside making babies and stay at home to take care of them) and wear their husband’s rank on their sleeves. I am sorry they are not in the military and we should not pretend that they are. They are not risk their lives. The other female officers are and we generally do not even get as much respect as these women.
When asked if I plan to make a career of the military, what do you think. The only people that would stay in the military are folks that have not experience any other type of lifestyle. I hear these same complaint from my fellow female officers. Of my OBC class, I do not know of 5 female officers that intend to stay beyond their initial commitment.
Why do we leave? – The same reasons that men do. The end of our service commitment, end of our enlistment, upon reaching retirement eligibility.
The “war” takes a lot of courage, determination and a double dose of humor. There are some civilian jobs and careers that come close to the demand upon oneself and ones family, but not many.
Honorable service is to be commended, whether for 2, 4 6 or 36 years. Putting forth your full effort when battling, budgets and manpower cuts is sacrifice. Working all the additional hours because of “mission requirements” is the norm.
I’m leaving after 22 years because I no longer want to pay the stakes to play in the “games people play” nor am I effective in battling the decline that we are experiencing. I do not wish to risk my health, nor sacrifice any more time from my family. I’ve buried a father, a husband and two children. I’ve lost years being with family, till one day, watching a video tape of my loved ones, I felt no more connected to them than I did to watching anyone else’s video tapes.
I have at times, buried my “soul” and found my integrity challenged. I’ve stuck out my neck to have it chopped, stood-up and cut off at the knees, defended my subordinates to be “stabbed in the back.”
I worked on the civilian side and there were the same exact problems to handle. While the military you by law have to “respect” the officers appointed over you and obey their orders, you have bosses on the civil side that would make the Marquis de Sade cringe. There are laws and regulations that protect as much as they limit some freedoms. In the end it is all people and your experience while working around them.
In 22 years I’ve seen bad, worse and the very very best. From one end of the globe to the other I have seen firsthand how alike we all are, and how few are the differences. Oh those differences are a humdinger!
Enjoy the moments as they come, do your best. Keep a sense of humor about it all. God Speed
“Not That Much Different” — I’ve been reading the submissions of the women who served in the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines, and I hear a lot of things that are very similar to my own experiences.
Firstly, I’m Canadian, and served in the Canadian Armed Forces for 3 years, and they were the best years of my life. I mean I was young, single, and doing something that not a lot of people didn’t think I would ever do. Unfortunately, it all came to a sudden end in 1990, when due to government cut backs, my job was eliminated. One other reason I was released was because I could not speak French. You see Canada is supposed to be bilingual and those who can speak French and English get the better postings, their choice of courses, and promoted faster.
There has always been the shadow of sexual harassment, but now it just seems to have gotten worse, and of course, military spending is not something that our country is known for. I would have dearly loved to stay “in”, and for a while I even thought of re-enlisting, but now, at least financially, I know I’m better off with the job I have, but I still have my memories, my pictures, and the pride I hear in my son’s voice when I hear him say that “my mom was in the army!”
As a 21 year old woman stationed at Ft Bragg, I will be the first one to say that military life will always be different for a woman than it will be for a man. In the summer of 1998, I arrived at my battalion as a brand new E-2, fresh out of AIT and Airborne School. Within days, rumors were circulating around the unit that I had been in several different guys’ rooms at all hours of the night doing only God knows what. The funny thing was that I didn’t even know who these guys were, but everyone believed them regardless. I had a female commander at the time that called me in her office and in a roundabout way called me a slut and said that I needed to watch how I presented myself. You would think another woman would understand the rumor cycle, right? Guess not. As the months passed, I developed friendships with many of the guys who lived in the barracks with me and the rumors quieted down , but they were still there. By this time, a couple of new girls had came to the unit so most of the heat was on them, now. But wouldn’t you know that as soon as I started seriously dating a guy in my company, I acquired a new label. Now, instead of “slut”, I was “bitch”. I guess my so-called “friends” only pretended to be so in hopes of scoring as the female population in the unit is severely sparse. The relationship with the guy escalated and in the fall of 1999, we were married. Now, I’m a “dyke”, I suppose because all the undersexed guys figured they will never get any so it’s better to call me names than to accept that I liked someone better than them. How many men in the Army have to deal with issues like that? Probably slim to none, so I am sick of hearing about “equality” in the military. Women and men are not equal, neither in physical strength, thought processes, nor the way they are perceived by others. In a perfect world, we could all serve with no regards to whether or not we have breasts, but IT’S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! I am ETS’ing from the Army in August of this year and feel fortunate that I only signed up for 3 years. I guess I am a traitor to my sex, because after serving, I don’t know what woman in her right mind would want to stay in. Hmmm…let’s see. There’s the lovely field training with no showers or privacy, there are the 7 mile runs that the men have trouble staying in, but because you happen to be a woman it is always noticed when you fall out and you are yelled at. There’s also the damn BDU’s-I don’t care if I am a soldier or not, I still like to look like a girl and these baggy atrocities make it pretty damn near impossible. And let’s not forget jumping out of airplanes-quite possibly the most testosterone laden thing I’ve ever done. I could go on, but that would take awhile. In closing, I would just like to reiterate that the Army is not for most women. I think if you stay in too long, you begin to act and talk like a man, and who wants that anyways? i probably offended a lot of women with this, but hey, to each her own.
“Thanks for the Memories” — There are many different reasons why people leave the military. I, probably like everyone else although, I didn’t totally leave it. I got out after 14 years of service and went into the Guard. I was testing for my next grade when I realized I was tired of all the backstabbing, working 18 hours a day, leaving my family, and most importantly of playing WAR GAMES. I left that test and tried to sign my denial of reenlistment paperwork. Let me back up a little. I cannot tell anyone why I really came into the military. I was antimilitary. I came in met my husband and got married. I had only intended to do four years, but I found myself overseas for 10 years and was unable to finish school due to the courses being offered I already had. I could not see getting out in Europe and working in Burger King. ( I don’t have anything against those who do it’s just not for me). When we got a stateside assignment I was only going to do those four and get out. Believe me I was scared. The military was all I knew. I prayed for God to guide my path and as always he did, so I enlisted for another four years knowing that was going to be it. We went overseas again and that’s when everything started falling in place for me. Yes, I endured racism, bigotry, harassment and everything else we as women go through. I realized there was no reason for me to test when I knew I had no intentions of reenlisting. I had to go through four people who tried to dissuade me from signing that paper, but I did it anyway. It was like a burden was lifted off my back. I graduated from college before I got out and walked right into a job. It was nothing but God’s doing. No the military is not for everyone. All my superiors call me an idiot for getting out with only six years left, but I will make it up in the Guard. I now have my life back. I can go and work in my children school without worrying about being sent somewhere. My children no longer have to worry about getting up in the middle of the night because mommy and daddy have to go somewhere but we can’t tell them where. No I didn’t throw away anything. I received peace, joy and the ability to enjoy my children more.
I’ve read so many reasons for leaving the military and I just would like to comment on my personal thoughts being I am also a military woman who has had a chance to experience all the branches of service. I also hope to give words of advice to those who chose to get out, those who choose to come in and those who are in and are thinking of getting out.
If I may use some common sayings used at my command in regards to any complaint you may have about what you CHOSE to do for the military:
“Choose your rate, choose your fate.” “That’s why I signed my papers and that’s why you signed yours.”
If anything please use this as words of advice, do your research before you take that leap into the military. Research the branches of service, research the benefits they offer, research the jobs they have and the advancement rates. Once you are in though you are taking that chance that you are going to either find a good command or a bad command.
But this I can tell you from experience. When I was in boot camp I hated it, but when I got to “A” School I wish I was still in boot camp. When I got to my first duty station I wish I was in “A” school and when I got to my current command, I wish that I can go back to my previous command. And soon I’ll be reenlisting and leaving for my next command and wishing that I am at where I am now.
It’s unfortunate though with the sexual harassment cases and the medical cases, and I can really sympathize with the family cases, but you know what’s best for you and you know what you want out of life, the military will try to make you stand by what you sworn to coming in. Some feel you must stand by your word, and others believe you should stand by your family. They were there for you when you came into the military and they are the ones that are going to be there when you are out.
Just take it, if you’ve had a bad experience with the Navy or anything in life, and that things do happen for a reason. If anything you were put through hell and back to make you the stronger person you are today.
“We Are All Human” — Yes, we all have reasons that we got out and reasons that we stay in the military. I fulfilled my enlistment obligation in the Navy as an HT. Yes, I know all the stupid jokes about “turd chasers” but I was in the weld shop working on the boiler system piping and other jobs on that were labor intensive. I worked several long hours at a time, once from 7am one morning to 9am the next. Big deal, I’m sure most of you out there had the same thing. I was the only female in my shop in both commands I was stationed at. One shore duty and the other on board the USS Cape Cod. I don’t have any real complaints about the men I served with. I didn’t get pregnant, although I did get married. I feel it is who is in charge of you and their personal feelings of women in the military that can get in the way of careers. I am truly saddened by the women who have been forced out or raped or worse. I never dealt with these types of problems while in service. The whole point is that we all joined the military for one reason or the other and we all get out for one reason or another. The military isn’t a country club nor a “safe” place. The problem with the military is that we are all human and people make mistakes, therefore the military isn’t perfect. Bravo Zulu to all who have served and put up with crap from fellow shipmates, and people appointed above you and to the single parents and married parents who have and are serving.
I read some of the many comments you have posted and saw many of the problems I saw during the six years I was active duty in the Navy. I had no real reason to complain about my own career however.
My husband was also in the Navy, and that is where our problem arose. We decided it was finally time to start our family, and did so while I was on shore duty. The navy then decided to rotate my husband and I early, by about six months. Well, I was already pregnant.
My husband rotated to shore duty, and that is where our real troubles began. My HUSBAND was essentially discriminated against for having a child. His command gave him nothing but grief every time he needed to take the baby for a check-up. They constantly “forgot” that he was married to another military member. “Let your wife do it. that’s what they are for.’ was told to him on several occasions.
Since my re-enlistment came first, I left the service and went back to school.
I think the Armed Services need to adjust their thinking. Women are serving their country now, and though these women try their best to accommodate the military when it is time to start their families, somehow, the military just doesn’t seem to reciprocate. I didn’t sign any paper that said I wouldn’t have a child or get married while on active duty. The military needs to understand that these are normal occurrences, and if they want to maintain their quality people, will have to make adjustments.
I am recently honorably discharged from the Navy three months ago. As I have read all your stories I have come to realize that nothing has changed since the first women enlisted in the service. I too was planning on making a career out of the Navy. I choose a rating that was not kind to females (AO) but I worked hard for the first year at my duty station and was still considered weak and too dumb to lead a crew of men. I had a Chief that constantly harassed me and daily discussions included everything from sex and drinking beer to all sorts of profanity. I thought the military was supposed to be disciplined. I injured my back severely and was almost paralyzed from the accident. My command did nothing to help me and I was considered a “Non-team player” because I was hurt. I tried everything to prove my worth and made an around the world deployment to the Persian Gulf and several other detachments where I worked hard to prove myself to no avail. I also thought I would be able to go to school and at least complete some college courses but due to operational commitment it was not so. I was harassed for expressing my opinions and doing the “right thing”, which was preached to me over and over by my Command Master Chief. I left the military with a very sour taste in my mouth and would not recommend it to anyone male or female at this time. Yes there is security and they will clothe and feed you but is it really worth all the demoralization that takes place?
Medically Retired: — I was medically retired from the Air Force after 18 1/2 years. I spent these 18 1/2 years in an aircraft maintenance career field, had 2 children, 2 headquarters assignments and a special duty assignment. I was sexually harassed, fought the weight management program the entire time (successfully), and excelled in my career field. I can’t explain what happened to me, but something did.
While overseas, I began getting depressed… I went to mental health to get some help, and that was the beginning of my downfall. The Air Force is so big on promoting their Mental Health program… no repercussions. The harassment I dealt with after going to see the “mental health” folks blew me away. My first sergeant began calling my job nearly everyday to see “how it was going”. My secure area badge was revoked. I was forced into an alcohol rehab program, (which, although I was not an alcoholic, the people there stood by me to the end… I will say that). I began getting called in for “random” weigh-ins, nearly every month. The psychologist I was seeing called the school counselor to find out if my children showed signs of abuse. My supervisor began looking over my shoulder. I had some problems, I was depressed. But I followed all the rules and did everything I was told to do. The only mistake I made was that first visit to Mental Health. Finally, I snapped. I began feeling suicidal, and admitted my self into the hospital. Then, in a matter of 3 months, I was medically boarded out of the Air Force… (the Physical Evaluation Board process, is in itself, mental abuse, IMO) the “family” I had given my life to dropped me like a hot potato. I felt like a used Kleenex. I try everyday not to be bitter, and it has worked out for my family and I. I loved being in the Air Force. I was so proud of my work. I miss the Air Force more than anything.
“Why I got out when I had 2 years to go to retirement….” — I loved the military. It was my life for over 21 years total service but I just got tired of the double standards that happens when we were in a war time mode and peace time mode. I served active duty Air Force, active duty guard time in the Air Guard and as a traditional guardsman, during the Vietnam era and Desert Storm.
I had been fighting my weight problem for over a year. I got on the weight program for being 2 pounds over my max. Once you are on the program, they didn’t go by your weight, they went by fat percent. So although my weight was under, my fat percent stayed up. I exercised as much as I could but the Guard is a little different from regular military. You exercised on your own time. I finally overdid it with some sit-ups I had been doing. I ruptured a disc in my neck and it made exercising very hard. I went to the military doctor but my profile was never changed. My exercising continued to slow down. I continued to pass my yearly fitness training but my fat percent was 1% over and the regs indicated that I was overweight by their standards. They said I could take a demotion, stay in and still be under the fat percent thumb or take a discharge with a severance package that at the time sounded good. I would like to say that during the time this program was instigated I really felt discouraged as I could see men that I was promoted with, go on to make rank and to make it worse see men that looked terrible in their uniform due to overweight be promoted.
Yes, I got out. They gave me a severance package way below the ones that got out under a normal drawdown and by the time taxes got hold of it barely did any good at all. I did get a Guard retirement but only because of the years I have in, but only after I paid the severance money back that I was given.
Even when I got out I was still penalized, it took me a year of chiropractor treatment to get me so I could hold down a job. Thought I could get a disability to help pay for the chiropractor treatments, well, I did get a disability but the disability payments are being applied to my retirement so I can get it when I reach 60. I’m just sad that the military could do that to someone who devoted so many years. I don’t blame the military as a whole, the ones that makes the regulations are the ones to blame. They make regulations that are a farce sometimes and most of the time the average military person is the one who has to suffer.
I will say that although I felt I got shafted I received great rewards for my own personal self worth by being in the military and wouldn’t trade the experience for anything.
“A Better Life Beyond” — I left the Army after nearly nine years of active duty. Having been a civilian now for 4 years, I have absolutely no doubt that leaving was the right decision, nor do I doubt that being in the service was a mistake at all. My service included a tour overseas, a successful company command, and relocation to Alaska where I am married and raising a family.
I left for several reasons. My fiancee had an established career here which I would not have asked him to leave; I wanted a family and just could not imagine turning my child over to a post day-care center to raise; and I did not relish the politics at field grade, where I was headed. I also had completely forfeited a social life and much of my free time while in the service, and wanted to be in charge of my own life and time for a change.
One thing that particularly bugged me toward the end of my career was what I still perceive as discrimination against women in the area of physical fitness. My final PT test was the first one I maxed (scored a 311). I was probably in the best condition of my life, but our battalion commander (and post commander, and probably the whole damn Army) had decided that anyone who could not meet the pace of the person (always male) leading the running formation was a candidate for remedial PT. Heaven forbid if this person be an officer! Well, I started having more and more difficulty with the runs (usually an 8-minute mile or faster, at least 3 miles), as did many of the other females. After the run, those of us who fell out were pulled to the side and told that we were setting a bad example, needed to “improve our attitudes”, etc. Never mind that most of us could exceed the maximum score in all areas of fitness; we were “losers” in the eyes of many above us. Of course, there were a few male soldiers having the same trouble, but the majority of us were female.
There was no point in trying to show our superiors the disparity between the running standard (literally, a moving target) arbitrarily set by the unit, and the standards used to evaluate physical fitness. We were wrong for not doing better, and that’s all there was to it. Can you imagine what this does to morale? Especially if you do the honorable thing and give it your all, instead of trying to escape under the guise of a profile? Eventually, an IG complaint surfaced that I signed, along with every other female in the unit (“fit” or otherwise). I was actually called by the post IG shortly thereafter and told that I had done the wrong thing by signing it … even though I had given my boss a heads up that I would be doing so. I told the arrogant jerk politely that I was exercising my rights by using the system for the purpose for which it was designed.
I don’t know whatever became of the IG complaint, because I separated before it was resolved. I did find out about a year later that I was suffering from advanced Graves Disease (hyperthyroidism) and that I could have incurred heart damage had it not been detected. Somehow, that little medical condition was overlooked at my exit physical, but it answered a lot of questions. I wish I could have thrown that back in the faces of the idiots who gave me such a hard time about running and “my attitude’.
Being in the Army really was good for me, though. Now that I’m out completely (the only benefit I ever used was the GI bill to obtain my Master’s) I realize how good we had it in some ways, how completely we were cared for. I get extremely irritated when I read about some of these military folks sniveling about how underpaid they are. I’d love to see them try to deal with Blue Cross or any “B.S. ” medical insurance company, to fight for needed surgery, when their every care (down to birth control pills) is handled at the TMC or medical clinic. To eke house payments out of single income, rather than have two or three tax-free allowances combine to pay for a nice house in the ‘burbs. Life is what you make of it … the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence … yadda, yadda, yadda. If you aren’t happier, get out. There may very well be a better life for you beyond the military. There was for me.
Main Thread. Comments follow:
“A Former Marine!” — I am a former Marine and I got out of my enlistment for many reasons. I was at Camp X and if you are a female watch out. From the day I got there out of school I was said to be sleeping with everyone. My GySgt called me in his office and instead of asking my side of the story he ask if I knew what sexual harassment was. I told him I did and his response to me was Verbally sexually harass me right now. When he said that it was like saying to me you are guilty of all the things that are being said about you. All I could do is stand there. I would still be in right now if I could have been placed somewhere else but to him that was out of the question. After I got pregnant then things really got bad. The doctors had take me off the road and out of the field. The people I worked with said I had asked to be take off the road. Things went from bad to worse. I could not handle it anymore. I was pregnant and single. They didn’t want me to have my baby. I finally met a Sgt. who is now my husband. I got out because I was a single parent and the Marines in my chain of command wouldn’t work with me on the hours I would work. So finally I was discharged for convenience of government. I understand where all of you are coming from.
RESPONSE: I am also a Former Marine. I’m sorry you had such a bad experience in the Corps. I would like to say though that not all units are like that. I’ve always had very supportive units. I was the only WM at both units I was stationed at. My male Marines I worked with were excellent. Life is very different in the military. As a female you are the minority. Many do not make to the end of their contracts for one reason or another. At my first base, I had many WM friends. I was the only one who did not get out pregnant. I did get married my last year in and had my baby in Okinawa. I think as long as you work hard, earn the respect we all deserve, being a female in the military is a great experience. It’s too bad you didn’t have the positive support of your unit. Semper FI Sister and I wish you well.
“SEPARATION 12/78 FINALLY TELL MY SIDE 5/99″ — I went into the army, became an interpreter/interrogator… but the sexual harassment and abuse began in basic training. I kept telling myself it will be different when I get to my permanent station, but it did not change AT ALL!!! Whatever self esteem I had when I went in (which wasn’t that much at barely 18) but was certainly gone by the first few months of service. I thought joining would help me gain some self respect and discipline that I knew I would need in the world as well as an education. In return I wanted to serve my country, and be all that I could for this great nation that I could be. I figured I graduated high in my class and two years early, I could do something that would benefit my country I graduated from High school at 16 and moved on my own so it wasn’t like I didn’t know what life was about… I just knew I would never be more than I was if I did not do something. That something that had the potential to be the best decision of my life was really a very bad decision. NOT because the “military” is so bad, but because of the degrading, and sexually compromising I was put in over and over again, it seemed everywhere I went. If it wasn’t some officer or NCO threatening me with promotion for sexual favor it was an officer or NCO telling me the only reason I got into the field I got into was because of my body, my smile and yada,yada; and that all us “cheerleader” types want everything handed to us on a silver platter. Well, I did not submit to the threats, and did not cower to the accusations … but it Was the most miserable 3 years of my life, and although they never had the objective ammunition they needed for an article 14 they got me with non judicial punishment, withheld my rank and I actually lost rank!! Okay, so they BETTER be happy I am not in now and that I have no recourse!!!! Or they would be fried!!! It just took me too long, an abusive relationship and counseling to get through to the point that I could be assertive enough to do what I need to do in a situation like those. I did not even know one person I could confide in at that time!!! At that age, what could I have done? ANYWAY… se le geurre
I am a very successful airman. I have earned various quarterly and yearly awards at squadron and group levels. I have been singled out by a CCM as showing “what the Air Force should be” and I have earned an Air Force level award. I made E-5 in 4 1/2 years. I even got a special duty assignment after only 2 1/4 years in the military. So, if everything is so grand, why get out? Simple. I am not having fun anymore. I have seen outrageous violations be overlooked and swept under the rug “in the best interest of the Air Force”. Many don’t live by Integrity, Service before Self, and Excellence in all we do. I happened to. The decision was absolute when the AF sent my husband to a middle east assignment (which I and our daughter could accompany him to) alone. The AF denied us to remain together. Did we know the possibility of this happening: absolutely. We were given no clear answers or guidance and then were told our next assignments would be apart as well. 4 1/2 years without being a family unit would have killed this family. Then the AF touts how proud they are of themselves that they put family first. No, they don’t. I am more than happy to serve, but my service is better with my family intact. To add insult to injury, we heard the typical inane remark: if the Air Force wanted you to have a family, they’d issue you one. No, the Air Force didn’t issue me a family. God did. Do I need to remind the military what America’s motto is?
“Today’s New NCO” — I am an NCO who has fast tracked my Army career. I have reached 11 years on active duty and am now seriously considering ETSing. Since I have been in, I have won some type of soldier/NCO boards or commandant lists, represented my post in some type of sporting event, slowly obtained my bachelors degree. Each of my assignments have consisted of field type unit that deployed or hardship tours in which I have been separated from my husband (an NCO too) and two children. I have been 100% dedicated to the mission and have always taken care of my soldiers. But in the last couple of years, I have seen a huge change in the caliber of soldiers serving in the Army. It is probably due to all the downsizing but it appears that the quality of NCOs is slowing but surely disappearing. It seems those NCO “who lead by examples” are taking their leadership skill to the civilian sectors or just plain tired of the system. They are being replaced by individualists who lack leadership, tactical and technical experience or/and skills. The new recruits do not receive the same time of training, mentoring, and counseling that I received in the Army 11 years ago. I believe this is a major factor in the high attrition rate amongst first termers. The truth is the real NCOs who fulfill our creed do not fit in anymore. The “new NCO” can be described by the following Pencil-in personnel file for next promotion board, mainly concerned about individual career progression, small amount pride in mission accomplishment and refuses the responsibility with soldiers. I know this does not pertain to all NCOs, and there are the few who stand tall, care about mission and soldiers and lead by example, but more and more are filling the description of the this “new NCO.” For example is my “new NCO” First Sergeant who tells a group of NCOs, including me, that his only mission as a 1SG is to ensure his company commander makes rank as a Major. I was taught, and have been fortunate enough to have, 1SGs who maintain the responsibility to ensure all enlisted are trained in his company and their welfare was looked after. A second example, is a E5 who changes his MOS to avoid RCP. This E5 gets promoted, then for two years cannot pass inspections, does not take care of soldiers, and couldn’t care less about resembling a soldier (i.e., passing APFT test and wearing a uniform properly). This E6 will probably make E7 this year. The morale is rather low in the Army and the only way this will improve, is to ensure all NCOs are and remain qualified and competent. If not, the Army will lose out.
Main Thread: Comments follow:
“Teach About Rape Awareness” — I was raped. Just that simple. In my early career in the military while doing a Mediterranean tour during Desert Storm-Desert Shield time, I was abducted by 3 local men while at Fleet landing waiting for our liberty boat to arrive, driven to the mountains, beaten and raped. I survived physically- but not emotionally. My ship treated me very poorly. My captain told the ship that everyone was to be careful out on liberty because “someone” on the ship was raped. It wasn’t hard to tell who because of the bruises and bite marks on my face. Some of my “shipmates” actually (to my face) told me that people were talking saying “look how she dresses”, “she’s so friendly, she probably deserved it.” This happened in Sep. of 1991. My division officer asked me 2 or 3 days after the rape if I wanted counseling. I told him no – only wanting to forget. Weeks later I did go to him for help and was told I would not be able to keep orders that I had been given to Guam. ” By the way petty officer, I have been given reports that you have been crying in your sleep and crying in your shop. It’s time to move on and get over it. You must be strong.” You know what? I did. I sucked it up. I never let anyone see my pain again. I never went to counseling. I didn’t even talk to anyone for years. That is until My next ship about 3 years later when the XO called on the 1-MC for me to report to his office immediately. It seems I was being subpoenaed for the trial and he wanted to know why I didn’t tell him when I reported on board? “Reporting for duty and by the way I was raped, Sir.” My career deteriorated slowly through the years. I actually ended up doing 9 years in the military until I could no longer walk down the piers. I walked with my head down. A far cry from the girl that first came in the military. The funny thing is I just went to the VA Hospital the other day thinking it’s time to get help after all these years & after waiting 5 hours to be seen, all they did was try to throw prescriptions for sleeping pills and anti-depressants at me. (I took the one for anti-depressants). Do I blame the military? In a way yes. I believe that there should be rape awareness taught to either Medical and or those people holding supervisor positions. I also think there should be mandatory counseling for victims of any crime.
By the way, I would like to say that the men were caught and sentenced. They are currently doing a 10 year sentence each.
RESPONSE: — I too was a victim of a rape in my early years in the military (Air Force). The Air Force in the late 70′s was “the old boys club.” I should have figured out how bad it was when I was forced during “recruitment” to watch a couple of movies about how to be a woman in the Air Force — more to the point in a maintenance career field. The movies explained how I was going to have to work twice as hard as any guy to get ½ the recognition, as women were not accepted in maintenance career fields. Boy, they weren’t kidding.
When I got to Technical Training at a base on the Gulf Coast, we were told there was safety in numbers, and that the guys outnumbered the girls something like 6 to 1. I was assured that swift action followed any “incidents.” It sure did! I was still adjusting to taking classes and the tech school environment, which was obviously a traditionally male-dominated world when I unfortunately became a statistic. The response from the NCOs in my squadron and the med corps was swift for sure! They were very swift at making phone calls and appointments for me. I was medically evaluated, investigated by the OSI, and then psychologically evaluated, I got angry over their responses. Despite how fast they picked up the phones, everything was very impersonal and lacking in any shreds of sensitivity, understanding, or compassion. Ultimately the entire affair was dismissed — despite my ability to provide them with a name, date, location and one rather expensive coat which had gotten destroyed. I was offered dry cleaning services.
I can sympathize, I’ve been there. I had to cope on my own. I lost boyfriends over the years, and possibly my first husband over some of the baggage left over from that unfortunate incident.
For what it’s worth, I stuck it out, and finally retired. I fought a hard battle for many years, both personally and professionally. Now I’m not sure why! Today, I firmly believe that as long as the military’s senior corps remain male dominated, and women are perceived as a “necessary evil” to tolerate, that filling the block through “seminars and education” will be as far as action to properly deal with rape will go. We were “educating” people about “sensitive” issues when I retired, reading through recent posts, it hadn’t changed. The attitudes need to be changed, and the old boys club is not ready to change. The military had become, in my opinion – a breeding ground for every form of institutional prejudice known to psychology, and probably a few they haven’t figured out yet. I could have stayed for a full 20, but when they offered me an “early retirement” with 45% I figured I’d better take it before it wasn’t there any more!. I’d gotten tired of a “seminar” making people “aware” be the solution. I found frequently the “awareness” served only to broaden the gaps in effective communications and highlight the problem. Besides, I’d just plain quit having fun.
It’s not bad enough rape was an accepted fact, but the psychological abuse that came with it was almost harder to handle. Why should I then, or anyone now have to tolerate it! The military is there to protect the rights of the average citizen to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. When in the military you do give up certain rights, and I watched over years a progression of giving up more and more. I just got to a point I was tired of giving up, and not getting anything back. Retired in 1995.
“I GOT THE SHAFT” — I had originally joined the Navy to learn a career trade that I would be able to do on the outside. I had also wanted to go to college and earn my degree and travel the world. It started out great. Bootcamp was awesome and I got to go to Hawaii on shore duty. When I got to my duty station it all went down hill. I was told by the recruiter that the school I wanted wasn’t open, but I could request it at my 1st duty station. When I tried to get my A school, I was told that I had a DOD tour of 3 yrs. I thought maybe it won’t be so bad and once I finish 3 yrs I would go to A school and start my career. I also thought of trying for an officer program. For the 1st 2 yrs I had shift duty and I couldn’t take any college courses because of that. The officer’s that I worked for advised me that if I did for them that they would do for me. (I am talking about just being the best at what my job entailed.) I got qualified in every aspect of my job and more and I ran rings around all the men at my station. When it came time for me to ask for something in return (like some OJT so I might pass the advancement exam) I was told I couldn’t because there weren’t enough qualified SN or FN. After the 1st year a slew of new recruits came in and I was told once they were trained that I, and others like myself would get off shift work and start a 7-4 Mon-Fri except for duty shift. I was so pleased. Then after so long I realized it wasn’t going to happen. I put in request after request to leave and transfer somewhere else on the base in hopes for better working conditions. I didn’t party w/the in crowd after work so I always got the short end of the stick. I was not designated so basically I was put where ever the Navy needed me. I was a guinea pig. My chits were turned down and one day I put in one to go somewhere else the day after I got a denial. MY MC advised me that it would just be turned down. I then stated to send it all the way up. I was called to have a meeting w/the command MC.
I had explained my situation and he advised me that he would grant the request. I was on shift work still, but I really enjoyed my job. I had complete satisfaction in what I was doing and the people I worked with were all team players. It took 2 yrs of struggling to work for someone who really cares for there people. That was one command that didn’t have any problems. We all got along great and if you had a problem w/something you never had to worry about looking over your shoulder. When it was about time to reenlist, I had the worst fear that it would happen all over again. I really would have loved to stay in. I miss it a lot, but I couldn’t put myself through that again. I almost had a nervous breakdown before I moved commands. The Military is a great thing and right now I’m working on my degree in forensic psychology thanks to the GI bill. I wish I would have had a better 1st impression at my 1st duty station. Who knows? I might have still been in till this day.
“I left the Navy after only serving 2 years” — I left the Navy after only serving two years as a hospital corpsman. I left because I couldn’t stand the harassment, and that wasn’t sexual totally but just plain regular harassment from being lower enlisted. I guess that your superiors seem to take their rank to their head and abuse it to the fullest, I say this because that being in the military is one big sacrifice and I don’t want to run it down to the ground. It’s not for everyone and some people are not suited for the military job description. I would have to say that my experience wasn’t a good one, I found the military to be so rough and mean, to the core. I understand that it does have to be that way since the military is here for only one cause to protect our country.
I want to know when do they drawn the line on treating people, we are human not robots, the military expects people to be something they are not and if they would realize the majority of people going into the armed forces, only have a high school diploma or GED equivalent, what do they expect in the military? Geniuses?
I got out with finding out I was pregnant. I will admit I used being a female and being pregnant was a alternative and I used it, unlike most duty stations, while being stationed at Naval Hospital Naples, my C.O didn’t allow for me to use the discharge to get out on Pregnancy. I fought long and hard to get out.
I didn’t have it easy to get out, I got hell for it from other military members and senior officers, who were just plainly mad that I wanted out, and they couldn’t understand how or why I wanted out, the plain fact of the matter is that the majority of the people who were mad I wanted out was “MEN” not to be discriminating. Men are the reason woman leave, you have sexual harassment and competition between the sexes, I think men resent woman who get pregnant because of the treatment they get, meaning the 40 hour work week, no duty and bed rest, and all the time off for doctors appts. I hate to say this but being pregnant is terrible and sometimes men should try to put themselves in our shoe and see what being pregnant is all about, and they need to have some compassion. The kid I may be carrying may be the next President of the U.S.
I hate those woman who are so gung ho and want to do all the things men can do in the military, frankly I disagree, woman should never ever fight in combat. I say this because woman are the bearer of our children. They make sure the population will always be populated. If you kill off our bearers of our next generation who will continue this world into the next centuries and the near future?
I got out after 8 months of struggling back and forth through my chain of command and going to mast, to ask the C.O why I wanted out, I felt that being home with my baby was better for her than serving at the time, yes I know I broke my contract, but the Navy should realize that females will and can become pregnant and things change for us mentally and emotionally, we also gain weight with it and our body isn’t the same as it was before. I was married to my husband he was active in the same chain of command and it wasn’t working out for us, the dept head who was above me constantly was making sure he was not to enter my work space, because we were married. I believe the command was trying to cause problems and separate us and just be plain mean. I don’t know, however, after writing my congressman, and explaining to him my situation and how they were treating me that I could no longer take the military. My congressman from my home state got me out of the Navy honorably. I wouldn’t say this was easy, I was med-evaced back to Naval hospital, Bethesda, Maryland, during my wanting to get out because of all the stress and complications of Toxemia. It happened that I was able to meet my congressman in person and was able to tell him my story.
I got out with a honorable discharge, and you wouldn’t believe who signed the yes chit to approve it, it was a female admiral (C.O) who let me out and understood that wanting to be home with my child was more important. I still believe today I made the right decision, I see lots of woman now get out on pregnancy no questions asked, I wonder if it had to do with me telling a congressman and putting up with alot of crap to get out on that discharge.
My husband believes I made a change for the better for females to get out on pregnancy, I made a path for them, maybe some commands let them out now than before, I just know that woman have that option thanks to my congressman.
I will always believe that women have the choice to join or get out but men will always be the soldiers on the forefront fighting for our country and they are the ones who need to be in the military, I know they may not understand but the birth of a child is a miracle and we have our place to do so, and men have their place to sacrifice their lives to keep this country safe and free.
I will end on that and say that being in the Navy taught me alot and how to grow up and stand on my two feet and fight for what I believe in. Without the Navy I would never be on my two feet now making decisions and having a career.
Thanks for this website to let me air my feelings and opinions and to all woman who feel down about their decisions, not to. Be proud that you at least served and went into the military, there is a whole world of people who would never even think of going through boot and seeing what the military is like, we did and we should be proud, I am and will always be.
RESPONSE #1: – I too was in the Navy, from 1987-1994 and fulfilled my enlistment contract. I was an MS1, my 3 duty stations were all on shore duty. My husband at the time was an MSC(SW) on a ship. He is now an MSCS(SW) stationed on a ship. We also met while stationed together at my first duty station. While being stationed in Hawaii, we decided to have a child-who was born at Tripler Army Hospital.
I decided to get out of the Navy not because of harassment or problems at my duty station and DEFINITELY NOT because of PREGNANCY. I decided to get out because of 2 factors: 1) The detailers were not able to work with me on my next duty station, which would have been on a ship in San Diego (I have no problems on going on a ship) and 2) probably the most important, I wanted to be able to have a stable family life for my child and any other child that my husband and I would have (which we had a daughter).
I have worked with/or been acquainted with numerous females in the Navy who felt that they were getting the “shaft” because the “chain-of-command” and their shipmates just didn’t want to work with them. I am sorry that the writer of “I left the Navy after only serving 2 years” felt that she was not treated as a human. The military/Navy is a job that is not like a civilian job. Remember what you learned in boot camp? What was the reasoning to “follow directions” and “pay attention to detail”? Maybe to help save not only your life but the lives of your shipmates when the time is required especially if you were aboard a ship? Is civilian life much better than the military? Do all civilian employers treat you as a human? The military do not expect people to be geniuses, they want people who will follow directions and do as they are told. Being a civilian now, my employer expects the same thing from me.
I’m glad to hear that the C.O. of Naval Hospital Naples didn’t give you the “pregnancy” discharge. There is no such thing. It’s females like you who make it so hard for the other females in the military to get the respect they deserve. There should be no “exceptions” for pregnant females. I had no problems with my shipmates. I did my job, stood duty and did not make my pregnancy as an excuse. Obviously you had ”problems” other than your pregnancy to make you want to get out. Sure there are men out there who give women a hard time, but the majority of men have no problems with females and pregnancy. Most chiefs and those up the chain-of-command will work with women who have a problem with their pregnancy. They are not the monsters you believe they are. Men do have compassion. What about those men who are deployed and have wives who are pregnant or kids that are sick?
I agree that women should not fight in combat. I don’t think that men should have to also. But you knew that when you joined the Navy, that you may be put in the position of being stationed aboard a ship or at a duty station that may be dangerous. This is what’s called, “serving our country”. Yes women are the bearers of children but if the men were “killed-off”, then who would we have to help populate this world also?
The Navy does realize that females become pregnant and with that changes come. This is why there are programs out there to help with losing the post-pregnancy weight and help with the pregnancy. This is why we go to pre-natal appointments to discuss with the obstetrician any questions or problems that may occur.
You seem to have forgotten the word “fraternization”. This is why your dept head wanted to keep you and your husband to be separated. It wasn’t because they wanted to cause problems. I’m assuming that your husband was/is a corpsman too. The hospital/work-space is not a place to be constantly visited by your spouse.
I’m sorry to hear that you became Toxemic during your pregnancy.
You may believe that because you spoke to your congressman, you cleared the path for women to be able to use the excuse of a pregnancy to get out of the Navy. I don’t think so. This was happening before you came into the Navy and will continue to do so since you’ve left. It’s because the Navy is sick and tired of women like you who do not want to finish their commitment that they made when they signed the enlistment papers. The Navy spent alot of money sending you to school and then overseas to Italy. You had what- 2 to 3 years left on your enlistment? You probably could have spent that time on shore duty. Your husband could have gone to a ship and then you would more than likely be able to stay on shore duty, since the Navy works hard to have dual military couples split the shore/sea rotation i.e., one is on shore duty while the other is on sea duty. Especially when there are children involved.
You have an old-fashioned way of thinking that “the men are the ones who need to be in the military” and “they have their place to sacrifice their lives to keep this country safe and free” and us women are here to “birth” babies because it’s “our place to do so”. You forgot to make sure that we were barefoot at the same time. Haven’t you noticed that more and more men are wanting to be with their wives/girlfriends in the delivery room when their child is born? Or did you make your husband wait outside until you were done? The men in the military feel bad enough that they have to be away from their families due to deployment or training. But they are in the service (remember, we no longer have the draft) because they want to be able to take care of their family and to serve their country.
Don’t forget that many women have sacrificed their lives for your freedom also. This country during World War II had civilians who also sacrificed their lives to contribute to the war effort.
I can’t believe that with you only being in “2 years”, was long enough for the Navy to teach you alot, how to stand on your two feet and to fight for what you believe (except how to file grievance complaints so you wouldn’t have to work). Whether or not you want to admit it, you haven’t seen what the Navy is about. You were only in for 2 years and during most of that time lets see, you went to boot camp for 2 mos, then you went to corpsman school, how long is that? 3 mos or more then you were transferred to Italy, got married or maybe you were married during school and then both you and your husband were transferred. Then you found out that you were pregnant and started to do more complaining than your job. You are right you have learned alot while being in the Navy for “2 years”. Is your husband still in the Navy? Does he plan on making that a career, because unless he waits until his enlistment is up, he can’t use pregnancy to get out. Oh I forgot, “men will always be the soldiers on the forefront fighting for our country and are the ones who need to be in the military. Men have their place to sacrifice their lives to keep this country safe and free.” Just to quote you word for word.
In all honesty, I do hope that you feel at peace now. You made the decision to get out because of your belief that your child needs you. Don’t blame the Navy because you made the choice of joining and found that it wasn’t right for you. Unfortunately you signed enlistment papers so that made you committed. Maybe if your 1st duty station wasn’t overseas then you would have a different outlook. But I don’t believe so. The way that you feel and think just doesn’t work with the Navy life. Just stop saying that you opened the path for pregnant women to get out. Like I said earlier, this has been going on way before you joined.
RESPONSE #2: First of all to the MS1 that responded…. Bravo! You spoke well. As far as the corpsman who feels we should all be barefoot and pregnant…. I can’t believe you are still living in the 18th century. I have been a corpsman for 15 years, have had 3 children (one in Japan) and would never dream of jumping ship just because I am pregnant. If you believe we belong in the kitchen spitting out babies, why did you join the Navy? Or is it because you fit the caliber of personnel you so nicely group us in? and I quote “the majority of people going into the armed forces, only have a high school diploma or GED equivalent, what do they expect in the military? Geniuses?” No, but they expect you to pull your weight and do your job.
You are going to experience good and bad people everywhere you go, just because a few people didn’t like the fact you were pregnant does not mean that that’s “the Navy”.. Did you ever stop to think you were given a hard time because of all your whining and complaining? You can bet if you worked for me you would be pulling your share of work. Yes, you are allowed time for appointments, and reduced working hours “as recommended by your healthcare provider”. But I have never been discriminated against because I was pregnant. I worked as an EMT up until my 9th month of pregnancy so don’t tell me the Navy and pregnancy can’t work. It’s women like you that the men of the military stereotype us as. Thanks… you’ve really done a lot for us. There are situations that childbearing and military do conflict, and I feel for those women that have to make the decision to get out. That is what the policy is, not to get out just because you couldn’t plan your pregnancy to meet your military obligations. You, my dear, are just a crybaby giving us all a bad name. You did not open any paths for us, and we don’t want help like yours. Bravo Zulu to all the dual military, military moms and single parents that juggle both their military career and a family. We all know how hard it is but know in most cases it can be done!
I left because I had 20 years, 2 months and 21 days done. That included two tours in Vietnam and two 3 year tours in Germany. I had a wonderful time. I was reading several letters from ladies who said they were treated badly as single parents. Here in Clarksville, single parents left their children on people’s doorstep when they had to leave for Saudi. One couple left their two children at home alone with a anytime teller card to take care of themselves. One was in first grade, the other was in the third grade. The parents did not give them the code to access the account. The children were found by DHS when the did not attend school for a week.
The purpose of the military is to Close with the enemy by means of fire and maneuver and kill or capture him and to destroy his means to resist. There is nothing in that about social experimentation and family values. If you can’t hack it… pack it. The military is not responsible for caring for your children, you are. If you can’t take care of kids and soldier, then either get out of the military or don’t have children. It does not take a Ph D to not get pregnant.
Reading over the comments that people have made for and against leaving the military – there were good and bad in both. What it comes down to is simply a personal choice. After 8 years of AD service in the Navy I am ready to put away my seabag and take my chances in the “real” world. So much has changed in the last few years. When I first joined I was ready to see the world and live the Adventure that was promised. Yet eight years later I have seen the world but the adventure was in surviving much of what the Navy had to offer. The words that the Navy promotes as “Honor, Courage and Commitment” seems much prettier on the poster than it is when applied in today’s military. Due to the fight to advance, many have to put aside their values in order to be what the Navy wants them to be. Am I bitter about my last eight years? Well, after dealing with many job related injuries, the depression and anguish that comes with dealing with sexual assault and harassment that the military has a lot of words for yet no action, one would think so. But in my heart I know that for eight years I gave as much as I could to get the job done and then some. I will be able to walk away knowing that I am a stronger and wiser person because what I have learned about others and the way politics work. I will never again submit myself to feeling less than I am just because someone tells me it is true. Nor will I stand by and let it happen to others. To those who stay in I offer my respect and admiration – to those who have left I offer my understanding.
As a 13 year, very proud AF veteran, I am glad I found your site. But after reading so many of the posts in your “Why women leave the military”, I am very angry to see so much bad-mouthing going on of an individual’s choice to leave. Until you walk in our shoes, you should not throw stones. I left because I followed my doctor’s recommendation to “Leave before they kill you!”. I have thyroid disease. Medically documented by my doctor and the medical profession to cause an inability to lose weight in some of the population. I am one of those people. I did the “inpatient weight loss program” at the hospital, and everything they told me to. I was attending aerobics classes 6 days a week, plus had my certification as a fitness instructor. I ran 3 miles a day. I had no life outside of the gym. I met my weight standards, however, I was 1/4 inch over my body fat. Nothing I did get shrink my hips any smaller than God intended them to be. You could see the bones and feel the bones. My waist was small, and I have a small neck. However, that is not good enough. Every month they told me I wasn’t trying hard enough. Every month I brought in as much proof as I could that I was doing everything, and more…to now avail. So, I decided to leave. I didn’t need that kind of harassment. I was shocked when my doctor told me leave before they killed me, and when I asked him what he meant, he said that they never were going to be satisfied until they I lost that 1/4 inch, and my health was getting worse as it was. Then, to top it all off, the ladies conducted the monthly weigh-ins were grossly overweight, and told me that I needed to try this “pills” that would make me lose weight without trying. Sorry..but I don’t do things like that. Needless to say, I left. I imagine I’ll get lots of mail from all these people that posted saying I didn’t try, blah, blah, blah. Too bad. You can keep your opinion. As for me, I am in training for a marathon, and don’t care. Weight does not determine your fitness level, or how well you do your job.
“So Many Stories” — I’m leaving Air Force active duty after my first enlistment. The Air Force itself has many wonderful ideals that it wants to fulfill. Unfortunately, I believe they lack the leaders they need to fill these ideals. The few qualified motivated go-getters they do have are so bogged down cleaning up everyone else’s mess, they haven’t time to create the quality Air Force. Those young airmen who have the potential to be great leaders have very few good examples to follow. Now, I suppose seeing things as I do, you would think this would be motivation to stay in and make changes. However, everyone in the military knows that it takes rank to have any kind of influence. It is my hope that my position in life will be dictated by my personality and potential as opposed to what rank I hold. I have seen far too many airmen with so much potential wasted and too many NCO’s who haven’t a clue about what being a good leader means being in high positions. It seems too many NCO’s are in it to make their next rank and are not there for the people who allow them to have a position or title that looks good on their EPR. I’m not so disappointed in the Air Force as I am in many of its leaders. It was my intention upon joining to only do one enlistment, as I feel I do owe it to my country and the people who died to allow me the liberties I take for granted. I also feel limited in my potential with the Air Force. You can only go so far so fast. I want to live my life at the speed at which I will reach my potential at it’s fastest, so that I can do more good with the short time I have on this earth. Whatever reasons you have chosen to leave, I hope they serve you well. Each of us, has taken the time to serve and protect ideals which make our country great, and that in itself is a great accomplishment for all of us.
“Just Tired” — I am interested in getting out of the military. I have grown tired and very weary of the military. I have been in 7 years 2 months, I am an E-6. I have a set of twin girls 5 years old. I have 4 more years left on contract. I love my job but I am tired of waking up so early in the morning to go to PT. Then running however far 1 man wants to run that do not have to get the kids on
the bus, fix their hair and breakfast. And running as fast as he wants to run. He has never gave birth, he will never put his body through what a woman’s body has been through. I have really grown tired of this type of foolishness. I am sorry I am in the army. I am a good soldier my record speaks for itself . I am the NCO of the month and competing for NCO of the quarter, April the 17. I have lost all motivation. I am willing to get out and struggle than to stay in and not have nothing to give to the new recruits. I do not want to PCS, I do not want get up anymore at 0430, I am just tired.
I am currently in the AF and will be getting out in Oct. I am pregnant and after all the stress and crazy hours I have put, I have decided if I want to keep my sanity, I have to get out. I have had 2 miscarriages which my Dr says was related to too much stress. I work in a hospital, and go in sometimes at 4:30 in the morning or work until 9:00 at night. I cannot physically do some of the things that are required of me. All upper management is male, and has no sympathy for me or any other female that gets pregnant. I cannot lift 50lb boxes, and do things as quickly as before. I am not about to loose another child, because of the military. I have served for 6 years, and I would gladly serve 6 more, but I have to draw the line somewhere. When I miscarried my last child, I didn’t even miss a day of work. All in all, I enjoyed being in the military. It has been a great experience for me. My husband is happy about the choice I made, and I know when I see my child, I will be too. I did not get pregnant to get out, but that was the straw that broke the camels back. I do believe in service before self, but I lost 2 very important things in my life, and the military did nothing for me.
“Thinking About Getting Out of the USCG” — I am a 29 year old woman. I have been on active duty for the past 11 years. I am at a very challenging time right now in my career and feel I have no options but to get out. I was informed last week that I am being considered for sea duty (after returning from my father in laws funeral). The only ships that women go on here are deployed for 3-5 months at a time. The Coast Guard says that it will work with you in certain cases. Well I do have a special case. I have a 9 year old daughter that is on special needs. It would not be right for me to leave her with my husband who has a bi-polar disorder and my 6 year old daughter. Well my question is where in the heck are those so called people that are suppose to work with you??? My only choice would be to get out under less than honorable conditions (for not fulfilling a contract that I just re-uped on) and go on welfare. Thanks a lot to the Coast Guard for working with me!!!
I am a 26 year old Asian-American woman. It has been almost four years this spring since I got out of the army. I loved my job, I loved my friends, I loved the challenges I was faced with everyday for four years. The Army gave me very rich experiences for life! I got out because it made more sense to get out and use the GI bill than stay in and be uneducated, never able to take time off for school because of field problems. It made sense to leave knowing I served proudly and with much honor, knowing I did my best in every situation. It made sense to not burn myself out on hard physical labor my whole life when I had the opportunity to better myself in countless ways. The Army was the best choice I could have made straight out of high school with no skills and no hope of going to college because I made mistakes as a teenager, I paid for those mistakes in the most positive way, with hard work and integrity and discipline, otherwise known as blood, sweat and tears. Yes I had to deal with the harassment and sexism and racism and all the other not-so-nice issues, but I do so now in the civilian world too, I learned how to from the Army. I saw what years of service does to a person though, men and women, I never want to be bitter about choices that I make for myself, for my life, my career, the Army got the best I could ever hope to give, it got my youth and energy and great attitude… I get the rest! Thanks!
“Why I left the Marine Corps” — 1) I wanted to finish my bachelor’s degree. Working erratic schedules wasn’t conducive to this.
2) I’d finally had enough of barracks life (5 and a half years). I felt that I was penalized for remaining single while my peers were rewarded for being married. I even knew of ‘marriages of convenience’ in the Corps and was even proposed to at least twice!!! Silly me. I wanted to marry for love…. Maybe things will change with the new programs for singles in the military.
I had a love/hate relationship with the Corps. Still, I don’t regret joining the Marine Corps. It’s one of the few organizations around that can really inspire a person to reach beyond his/her perceived limits. It really is something special.
Main Thread. Comments follow:
“Excuses, Excuses” — You may have joined for all the right reasons, but somehow you lost your way and eventually got out for all the wrong reasons.
1. If you’re overweight and use this as the reason for getting out, it’s your own fault. Obviously, you know you’ve put on a few pounds, other people know you’ve put on a few pounds … why does Uncle Sam have to “order” you to lose weight? It’s for your own good: for your health and “fitness”, sound familiar.
2. The military is a trade-off. You agree to become government property, and in exchange, the government feeds you, clothes you, and provides you with shelter. No ifs, ands or buts about it. If you don’t like it, too bad. Good things come to those who wait (and deserve it, based on rank/grade).
3. Whatever happened to duty, honor and country? Did any of you take an oath when you joined the service? Last time I checked, it was a requirement. If you can’t keep your word, then you shouldn’t have sworn in to begin with.
4. I spent 9 1/2 years on active duty. At the age of 19, the Air Force took me in, gave me a marketable occupation/career/identity, and taught me how to be independent, assertive and successful. Of course, it wasn’t all roses, as they say, “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” However, I got out only to serve as a full-time air reserve technician in the same occupation. Today, I continue to serve and I will undoubtedly see it through to retirement. Why? Because I keep my promises and I know how to follow rules. I know how to get along with people and I know how to avoid those I don’t get along with. I’m not the type to whine or pout if someone doesn’t like me because of the way I look or who I am.
5. So to you crybabies, I have one thing to say: Thanks for getting out. While you did yourself and your country that favor, you also made room for someone to replace you who will be more deserving and appreciative.
RESPONSE #1: to Excuses Excuses” — Well said about excuses. If women cannot handle what is given out in the military then that says alot about them if they were ever to be put on the front line in combat. I know women aren’t suppose to or can serve on the front line of combat but just think if you ever had to be there in an emergency then the crap you put up with would help make you a stronger person. If you were ever to be held captive you would know how to take criticizm. Don’t let words or little actions hurt you let them make you stronger. And if you can’t handle it then I guess you don’t belong there. Like many people have said “The military is for people who are going to make things happen, not for people who are going to watch things happen or who wondered what happened.”
RESPONSE #2: Have a little respect!! Who are you to say that anyone has gotten out for “all the wrong reasons.” Until you have walked in their shoes you have no right to put anyone down for getting out of the military.
I was in the military for four years, the last two years were the worst two years of my life but I did not give up. It was not my intention for my body to break down nor was it my fault. And it was not my fault that the doctors did not take care of me and my chain of command did nothing to help me. I went to them asking for help many times, the doctors were not doing anything for me and my symptoms were only getting worse. I don’t think that I was wrong in thinking that I deserved to receive good medical care. I was a hard working soldier serving my country faithfully. And I was considered a good, hard working soldiers by everyone until it came down to it. Where was my chain of command when I needed them the most. I was discriminated against because I had a disability, I was no longer considered a good soldier because I had a disability. And yet they did nothing to help me overcome this disability. They used me and then threw me away. And I still gave it my best up until the very last day.
I believe that the military looses a lot of great soldiers because they fail to take care of them while they are in the service. The military doesn’t always do the right thing when it comes to taking care of and maintaining the care of soldiers.
I am now only 22 years old with doctor bills mounting simply because the military failed to do its job. I was a strong, professional SOLDIER but I was not treated accordingly and it is people like you that make the Army a bad name with your narrow mindedness!! And thank YOU for getting out!!
RESPONSE #3: “I Am Leaving Now….” — I am writing this for two reasons. The first is in response to the beginning article enclosed in this slew of comments and such. The second is to let everybody know my reasons for leaving Active duty.
1. To the woman who wrote “Excuses, Excuses” . Everybody gets out of the military for one reason or the other. Whether or not you agree with that person gives you no right to judge or criticize them. You may not have experienced sexual harassment, discrimination or any other problems. There are a great number of soldiers who have though. Stop judging and take care of yourself..
2. I am leaving the Armed forces now for a number of reasons. I’m sure everyone is aware of all the harassment taking place in the military. I have unfortunately experienced a great amount. Being a single parent in the military is quite a task, especially if you are stationed at Ft. Hood.
So please think before you attack people. You do not know what their reasons are…..
Early Retirement — After 18 years of active duty and over 20 years of Federal Service, I decided to take the opportunity for early retirement, which was approved. During all my years in the military, I really never had any problems. I was never sexually harassed or discriminated against – that I could see. I got along well with my soldiers, but I also think that my attitude towards life in general had impact on how other soldiers treated me. If males had problems with females in the military, that was their problem, not mine. I never had a problem with my femininity and I never had “to prove myself” to anyone – and never allowed myself to do so. I have to live with myself, not anybody else. I read all the stories of the women who got out for whatever reasons and I was saddened by some of the stories, because I did see that happen to others. That stuff happens – everyday – as I write and as you speak. I worked in the legal field – JAG – and was very familiar with much of the harassment that went on. The military changed my life; if it weren’t for the military and the experience that I’ve gained, I wouldn’t be the person I am today – confident, independent, self-assured. I even “got out” on a chapter in October 1985 as a single parent, but came back in May 1987 because I “missed” it. My last assignment was as the Noncommissioned Officer in Charge of the Augsburg Law Center in Augsburg, Germany, and I loved it. I had achieved so much, and was at the pinnacle of my career; so, I decided to get out and see what challenges I would face in the civilian world. Within a month and a half, I’ve found a job (making a couple of more thousand bucks, too!), and other than a little transitioning from military mode to civilian mode, I’m doing fine. We’ll see a year from now…
“treated like a child” — I was reading on why a lot of women get out of the military and I can’t say that I have a weight problem like a lot of the ladies that did submit a letter to you. My problem with the Air Force is that since I’ve been in, I’ve been treated like a child instead of an adult. As airmen, we are always being told to act responsible and mature, but in the same breath, we are being told that someone who hasn’t the slightest clue is coming to our dorm rooms to inspect! How demeaning is that! I’ve been to peoples houses in base housing that have so much filth in their house, it’s running out into the front yard! Still all they are required to do is to keep their yards neat in appearance! Ridiculous. Then there’s also the problem that you have so many of the “higher ups” that are so wrapped up in what type of things they can do to get “brownie points” that they forget about their “troops”. It’s not until someone commits suicide or comes to work with an attitude bigger than life that they realize that there’s something wrong but then it’s too late because that’s when they start giving out L.O.C’s and L.O.R’s. What kind of solution is that for a problem. Where I’m stationed at the morale is at an all time low. I’ve been at the same base for 3 years and I’ve never seen such low morale until recently and the bad thing is that nobody cares enough to try to do anything about it. Anybody that can do anything about it is too busy trying to get another assignment and leave here. I’m not looking for a solution to my complaint because I’ve already solved it; I’m separating at the end of this year and I have no regrets of doing it either. I’m not a “trouble airman”, as a matter of fact, I made BTZ and I’ve won airman of the quarter, so I have a good “track record.” To all of you “higher ups”, take the time to just see how your “airman” is doing and if they’re happy and if not, what are some things (within reason) that can be done to help them out. To all of you young airmen that have awhile to go, hang in there and God bless.
“Let Me Count the Ways” — I spent 10 years on active duty, from 1977-1987, beginning with Officer Candidate School. Initially, I thought I would make a 20 year career out of it, but then time changed things in the following ways:
1. Passed over for promotion to Lieutenant Commander, due to unjustified adverse fitness reports (evaluations) received while assigned to sea duty. I was sexually harassed and retaliated against. The “investigation” into my complaints were a sham and cover-up. The ship was a demoralized snakepit, where sexual misconduct (both heterosexual and homosexual) was tolerated, vindictiveness and backstabbing were the norm, and anyone who attempted to draw attention to these and other problems were viewed as troublemakers to be eliminated. Some of the officers got away scot free with court martial offenses. It’s hard not to get cynical after observing that the rules and regulations do not apply to everyone. Military training preaches fanaticism about rules, leading to unrealistic expectations of how they will be enforced in the fleet. I exhausted all administrative remedies, such as BCNR to get the unjust fitness reports removed. That was a wasted effort, since BCNR rubber stamped the evaluations, despite their agreement to remove the first unjust report. I filed a lawsuit with the US Claims Court after the honorable discharge, and that was another waste of time and money. The judge deferred to military authority, not even considering the way the Navy conducted its investigation. A complete cop out. I’m left without any closure to the matter. Now I write about it to magazine and book editors. It’s therapeutic.
2. To get married to a civilian who lived in a non-Navy town. That was almost 11 years ago. Still married today. Most of my peers never married. Hope they think living alone is worth it. (Somehow, I doubt it.)
3. To get more control over my life, to re-establish a sense of personal power. While on active duty, it felt like the Navy “owned” me, and I suppose that is true. It became very important for me to decide where I would live, what work I would do, who I would work with, instead of having the Navy decide this. The more control the Navy has over your life, the easier it is to become a victim of the system.
I’m sorry to sound so negative about this. However, I think people are reading this web site because they want to know the truth, not what the Navy is telling the public. I have had good experiences and have met some very good people, but none of that was enough to keep the bad experiences from ending my career. I do believe it’s my duty to inform and warn as many people as I can about what happened. Many people don’t seem to realize how easily a military career can be ruined, even to this day. All one has to do is say the wrong thing to the wrong person at the wrong time (think of the possibilities), and its all over. Officers are not speaking out anymore. Problems are not being solved. The environment is not conducive to honest discourse. Especially onboard ship. Don’t ever reveal any of your weaknesses (fears, doubts, secrets) to another shipmate. It’s a competitive arena, and I guarantee the information will find its way to the CO to be used against you in some way. What kind of friendships do you think are being formed in that situation? Does it sound like trust is being cultivated? I wouldn’t recommend military service to anyone today.
“From a Veteran Air Force Officer” I spent 2 and a half years on active duty as an Air Force officer. When the possible RIF was looming over us in 1992, my career field was eliminated and a freeze was put on cross training. My only choice was a job in the command post and the only openings were at very cold, northern bases. It was the type of job that would put me to sleep and I couldn’t stand the thought of being totally unchallenged most of the time. (I was familiar with the position because a good friend of mine held the same position and was miserable – she literally turned into a shell of her former self). I remember how shocked my squadron commander was when brought my VSI paperwork to him but he also said he’d probably do the same thing given the same choice. It felt good to know I would be missed but it also felt very sad to know I’d be leaving a job I loved. To this day I still look back on my time and remember it fondly. It was many long hours of hard work that left me with a great feeling of accomplishment.
I chose not to enter the Reserves or Guard because at the time, it felt as though the Air Force had betrayed me. I had intended to retire as a Col. but that dream was torn from me. It has taken me the last 6 years to work my way through the bitterness and finally only remember the good things. Yes, there were aspects of the military that I didn’t like. Like the fact that they could send me anywhere they wanted – I had requested bases in Florida, Texas and Arizona and instead I was sent to Germany. That would be great for someone who had never been there, but I had – my entire family lives there – kind of like being sent to your hometown. Still, I made the best of it and don’t regret it at all. (Even though I didn’t have a real life while I was on active duty – the AF pretty much owned me).
Perhaps the main thing I did not like about the military was the “politics” and only being able to associate with others at or near your same rank. Truthfully, I identified more closely with enlisted personnel – maybe because my father was enlisted many years ago. Even so, I had to limit my associations with many great people. I also did not like the mandatory social functions that officers were expected to attend.
As far as being a woman in the military, I never experienced any harassment. I saw many women who were not respected, but none that were harassed. Although I’m sure that harassment has occurred, I personally believe a woman’s attitude and her perceptions of other individuals are a key factor. I never tried to be one of the guys or act like a guy. I am a woman who still maintained her individuality while being part of a team. To this day, people still say I don’t look like the women in the military as they perceive them to be. I worked very hard to earn the respect of my NCOs and my superiors but I never tried to be someone I wasn’t. (As far as the weight program is concerned, get a grip ladies – the standards are quite realistic and you should be within the limits for the sake of your own health, at least!)
Although I will never rejoin the military – that part of my life is behind me and the military is not what it used to be – I will always be proud of my service. I am still very patriotic and very supportive of the Armed Services. But realize this – it’s not for everyone and if you’re not happy with it, think about getting out. You aren’t doing yourself or the military any good if you stay where you don’t want to be.
“Time in Service” — The time I spent in the Army, 5 1/2Yrs was truly a great experience. The only regret is that I didn’t go in until I was 33. If I had it to do over, I would have gone at 18 and done the whole twenty. My last job was at the White House Communications Agency. While a prestigious post, they didn’t pay attention to military standards, especially in the enlisted ranks and to apply to go to military training schools was out of the question. I also found my husband there and a civilian job that paid more than twice as much money as my E-6 income. The decision from there was a no brainer, but I do miss alot of things that were a part of Army life.
“Why I separated from the Air Force” — When it was time for my first reenlistment, I felt truly dedicated and faithful to the Air Force. Joining had been the best decision of my life. I was extremely proud to raise my right hand for the second time. I had high hopes for the future; goals that I believed coincided with the lifestyle of the Air Force. This wasn’t just a job, but a way for me to express my true patriotism and love for my country.
I had been promoted to E-4 below the zone, and then promoted to SSgt on my second try. It was at this point that I realized that I could truly make the Air Force a career, and for a while that was my plan. I had told myself all along that I wouldn’t leave the Air Force until I had acquired a Bachelor’s Degree. I had also believed that as soon as I made SSgt, I would be earning enough money to raise a child on my own. Those two concepts are the reasons why I left.
While my promotion did bring in more income, my rotating swing/mid/days shift deterred me from having the child that I wanted. I was witnessing several young single parent airmen struggling with day care; many of whom were risking their very careers. The promotion added a large degree of additional duties that ate away at my free time, making any thoughts of obtaining even an AA degree in less than four years quite impossible.
It was a very difficult to separate from the Air Force. I faced the loss of my identity, as well as my pride. Now that I am out, I realize that there is still a common bond tying us all together: we are all veterans. And I’m still patriotic; I’ve given nothing up. I have benefited as well. I’m in school full time, and I know that there is a place for children in my life, down the road. I know that I wouldn’t be able to pursue those dreams if I was still in the Air Force. While I know that someday workers are able to find night classes, and some single parents find the day care they need, it just wasn’t possible with the factors at play with respect to my AFSC and rank.
If I had to do it all over again, I would definitely join the Air Force. But, I also know that getting out when I did was the smartest decision I ever made.
The reasons were many…” — First of all, I did not get out because of weight, children, or for a well-paying job on the outside. In the career field I was in, there is no well-paying job on the outside.
There was no one reason why I separated after 10+ years as an AF maintainer. It was a combination of factors taken over a long period of time that brought me to this decision. First of all, I never intended on an Air Force career – the fact that I stuck it out this long amazes me. Second, I was tired of being the “token” female NCO in a vastly male dominated career field – no true harassment, but I was never “one of the guys” either (nor was I ever truly accepted by their wives). Add to this two “northern tier” assignments in 6 years (with a tour in the Middle East in between), the lack of good cross-training or assignment possibilities, the deaths of three close family members, and the feeling that my service to the Air Force was quickly becoming “just another job” and you might begin to understand my reasons for leaving.
I felt I did the right thing by joining the Air Force – I got to see parts of the world I might never had otherwise, and I learned things about myself that I might never had learned. But I also feel I did the right thing by leaving.
“A Specialist in the Army” — I am considering leaving the military for three reasons:
1. I have a two year old son and a husband who has a mental illness. Even though my husband is an excellent father, we still have to deal with his numerous hospitalizations. I think my son needs one parent who can be nearby all the time.
2. I have gained 20 pounds in the past year and am having a difficult time losing it. For the first time in my five years in the Army, I know what it’s like to have a First Sergeant talk behind my back about how I can’t run around the block. I feel humiliated.
3. I feel I need to take control of my life. When I joined the Army it gave me direction and made me feel safe. I felt I was serving my country and improving myself as well. Now I have a husband and a child to worry about and the Army is a distant second. I can no longer put my whole self into it and my soldiering has suffered.
I spent 7 1/2 years in the Marine Corps. I got out for 2 reasons. I.) I had just had my second child and was overweight. It was to the point it was just too hard to have to lose the weight. 2.) Was not having decent child care. I was up for reenlistment and decided I had had enough. I was always at my max weight limit. It just didn’t fit my body type. I thought about reserve but decided not to go that route. I would have still had to lose the weight and with 2 babies it was too much.
“I got out because …” — I was stationed at Ft. X in 1987. I was the only lower enlisted female in my company and received harassment every day, on and off duty. There were not other females around to make friends with and no matter how I approached the matter, it was impossible to be friends with the guys. I found a “safe” alternative in a boyfriend. However, when I ended up pregnant, he did not marry me. When he ETS’d he went back home and he begged me to get out as a single parent. I was terrified of being alone and did not see how I could be a single parent on active duty. At that time, I did not expect cooperation from my command when it came time to take my child to the doctor, or to stay home if he was sick. Also, with my parents in MO, I could not imagine how I would get my baby to my family while I was in the field, which happened at least four times a year. So regretfully, I got out on a chapter. But other things make me feel that I was not capable of staying in, and another four months would not have kept me from ETSing. The harassment was unbelievable. Senior NCO’s constantly complained of not being chosen for schools because they were females, even when females were allowed to attend. (The prevailing theory was that females did not need the extra training since they would not actually be deployed with the units. False, but a popular belief.) Furthermore, I was told I would not be reassigned, and I did not foresee being transferred out of Ft. X. Mostly, I was young and very naive. I am a very competent and aggressive soldier. I am sorry I let the system beat me, but I joined the reserves, and then the National Guard, and I have received nothing but praise for my accomplishments and professionalism. I was a SGT when I applied for OCS and I am looking forward to receiving my commission in September. The National Guard has kept me in touch with my family and my military career. I now have four children and a husband who is on active duty. The Guard has also provided me with interesting and challenging jobs. I have worked with a Counter Drug Program, and as a mechanic for a Bradley rebuild program, to name a couple. My career continues to expand and enrich my life. I run the chance of being deployed (again!), but I look forward to every opportunity the Army as to offer. My son, now 9, does not know his biological father since he abandoned him at 18 mos. I will continue to strive to be the example for my son, and I can only say that the 82nd lost a damn good soldier when they let me go!
“From an Air Force Veteran” — I had an AF commission through ROTC and spent 4 years as an AF officer. I didn’t intend to make the AF a career. I expected to serve one tour and then separate to take a civilian job where I could choose my job and job location. I did not plan to marry until I was about 30 and after I was established in a civilian career, but I met and fell in love with my husband while in the AF, married him when I was 26, and was 4 months pregnant with our first child when I separated from the AF. We now have 3 children, and my civilian job for the past 16 years has been full-time mother, which I certainly never expected (I always expected that to have a full-time career outside the home) but have never regretted. If I hadn’t planned to leave the AF after one tour anyway, I definitely would have left once I became a mother because I would have hated being separated from my child.
I consider my military tour to be a valuable experience and in many ways enjoyable. It was, however, also disappointing in several ways. (1) As a 20-something woman, I experienced more sexual harassment, especially outright propositions, than I expected, mostly from higher ranking officers. None of it was unmanageable, but it was demeaning and isolating. On the other hand, many of the military men I worked with–officers, NCOs, and airmen–were true professionals and, dare I say it, gentlemen, who treated me with respect and as an equal. (2) Where I was stationed there were only two other women officers, with whom I had nothing in common other than gender. Since fraternization with women NCOs and airmen my age was forbidden, I really missed having close women friends at work–especially since I came on to active duty right after college dorm life. In fact, some of my most enjoyable times in the military were during service schools where there were other women. (3) Honor and integrity seemed to mean nothing among many of the field grade and senior officers I met. Perhaps I had unrealistic expectations, but it’s a complaint I still hear from my husband who’s now an AF LtCol.
I left the Army because I was a single parent, or about to become one. Actually, that is not totally true. I was threatened by an NCO – E-7 to be exact, to get out honorably, or he would find a way to get me kicked out. He came to my unit shortly before I was to leave. I was pregnant, but I wanted to stay in. I had been told by my NCO’s to take it easy, do what I could and help out….this NCO came in, sent me out to the field, and couldn’t understand it when, after riding in the back of a hummer, I was throwing up and very sick…morning sickness strikes again. Then, I couldn’t make it to P.T. formation due to being over the toilet, so I asked my roommate to tell our section sergeant, that since I had C.Q. soon anyway, that I would be down as soon as I was done getting sick. She told him, but he called me out of ranks….and said that no one told him I was gone…..I had about 5 witnesses to say different. After that, I was told it was not a problem, and that no further action was going to be taken, since I had a valid and known reason… next thing I know, that E-7 was trying to give me an Article 15….and I was told to get out honorably or get kicked out…so out I went….however, not long before the paperwork started then that E-7 got transferred to another company and he changed his colors…..needless to say…if given to do all over, I would have stayed in. I miss it alot!
“Why I Left the Navy” — I left active duty because I was and still am married to an active duty Marine. I felt that our daughter needed one of us home more often. I loved being active duty. I was a reservist for a while but then ended up in a severe car accident. When I got the medical clearance from my doctor, I wanted so badly to go back to drilling. I then was informed after a 4am hospital visit that I have what is commonly known as Juvenile Diabetes. At the age of 29 it was not only a surprise but a let down. I had to leave not only a job that I loved but a part of me that I will not be able to replaced. I was the only female in a shop. I gave the guys the ground rules and they were more then willing to do as I asked. I admit that I did not make it really difficult. I knew I was walking into a mostly male world in the aviation community. I am a realist and this helped. Not all the experiences that I had were great. The good not only out number the bad but I found some of my best and longest friends on active duty. — A Proud Navy Vet.
Discrimination. — I was a warrant officer helicopter pilot, UH-1s, in the Army from 1985 to 1990. I loved the flying, but hated the attitude of my fellow pilots in the unit. They made it clear that I was not welcome to be part of their fellowship, and that they felt I did not “belong” there because I was a woman. When we went to field exercises they refused to let me stay in the same tent with them “because a woman shouldn’t be in the same tent with men”, but when I was left to find a place to sleep and wound up in a co-ed enlisted people’s tent, no one, from the CO on down, complained. When I would go into the Officer’s Club to eat lunch, if some of them came in to eat lunch they would look at me, then go sit at another table. Some of them had a lunch-hour card game which I regularly expressed interest in, but they never let me play because, as my platoon leader ‘explained’ to me once, “sometimes men just need to get together and do men things”. Of course, this was total bull, because in college before I joined the Army, I had played long evening card games with a mixed-gender group of friends, and now, in my civilian job, I play lunch-hour hearts games with a group of guys. In fact, when I told these civilian co-workers of my Army experiences re cards, they literally gaped at me in astonishment.
The bigotry also impacted my flying. Despite loving night-vision goggles in flight school and requesting to be put in a “goggle slot” in my unit, I was never made a goggle pilot– in spite of the fact that some of the male “goggle pilots” told me they didn’t want the slot and wanted to get out!! Also I noticed that I was given fewer, and lower-quality, boring flight missions than the men. While they got to do all the interesting stuff that developed them as pilots, I was given the trash missions and watched my expertise stagnate. After four years I totaled 600 hours of flight time while my flight school classmates, half of whom were in this same unit, had 1200 to 1600 hours. Only after nearly four years was I made a Pilot In Command. I lost this after 4 months by violating an altitude restriction while trying to contact Range Control on the radio. Compare this to another (male) PIC in this unit who crashed and totaled a Huey while trying to take off through a cloud of his own dust, in total violation of the flight safety techniques we were taught in flight school and after. It was a miracle that no one was even seriously injured in this crash, let alone killed–the bird looked like a crumpled-up soda can afterwards. Yet he was made a PIC again after 3 months!
On one rotation some members of the Alabama National Guard camped near us; they were a Chinook unit. These guys were different like night and day from the guys in my unit; they were relaxed, glad to have me visit and shoot the breeze with them. After meeting them I realized that yes, somewhere in the military there are pilots who “have lives” (the term the National Guard guys used when I commented on the difference in their attitude) and do not push away a fellow pilot simply because she is a woman. I had a similar experience meeting some Reserve pilots in a unit at Selfridge, north of Detroit. Unfortunately, I was not ALLOWED to join that Reserve unit because of the “combat restriction”!! (By the time Congress amended that law I had already moved out of Michigan.)
So because of these experiences I got out of the active Army after my four years, but decided to stay in the IRR and “keep my antennae up” for a Guard or Reserve helicopter unit that would welcome me, treat me as a colleague not a goat, and give me the same training and opportunities as the other pilots. I am perfectly willing to rejoin part-time, maybe even full time if properly tempted (an AH-64 unit, for example) BUT the members of the unit MUST want me there. I WILL NOT put up with that ostracism and bigotry again.
{However, I suspect that those attitudes are still alive and well in the Army, because I had a brief e-mail correspondence with a Warrant Officer who said he knew some people who might be able to get me an active AH-64 slot; but after I said “great”, and expressed the sentiments of the paragraph above, I never heard from him again.}
To those of you who “never experienced discrimination in the military”– where the hell were you stationed?? I want to go there!!!!
“All Air Force Women are not Fat — I spent five great years in the Air Force. I always knew that I would join the Air Force, and I always knew that I didn’t want to make it a career. But I never knew that I would miss it this much. I left the Air Force when I married my Army husband. My family is more important to me than the Air Force, so I gave it up to be a full time student. Now every time I see a woman in uniform I feel a pang of jealousy. I guess I’m crazy.
I do want to comment on all of the women who left the Air Force because of weight standards: the Air Force has the most lenient weight standards of all the military services. I know that it is tough to lose weight and that many don’t feel that they should be discharged from the military because of it. Well, I’m sorry, I disagree. If you want to be in the military, you should conform to standards. The Air Force will not discharge you off a single failed weigh in. It’s a lengthy process, during which you have plenty of time to lose the weight.
“Why I Left the Air Force” — Quality of life. All members are treated like children, especially the single enlistees.
I was single when I was in, and like most other single Airmen, I despised dorm life. I am a very private and independent person. I (stupidly) assumed that once we were out of basic and technical training that the AF would stop treating us like children (telling us where to eat and sleep, and let us run our own private lives) and let us alone so we could do our jobs. I believe that room inspections are an invasion of privacy and show a complete lack of trust (married people who live on base are not inspected like singles are). I hated having to eat at the chow hall instead of being able get BAS (like the marrieds) to choose where I ate. I put in 72-hour weeks for two years straight (as many of my fellow airmen were paid more than I was for less work, just because they had been in longer), and never got holidays off (holidays were only for married people, singles had to take what was left). Rank, I believe, counted for more than hard work and discipline. Respect was demanded, not earned as it should be. Married people seemed to be valued by the military more than singles.
Now I make 5 times more money than I did when I was in (doing the same exact job). I can advance on my own merits, stand on my own feet. My coworkers earn my trust, and I theirs. My job’s benefits have nothing to do with my marital status. I eat where I want, sleep where I want, live how I want, and do what I want, as I believe every adult should be able to do. I learned many things from my military experience, the greatest of which is to relish the simple joys of everyday freedoms that many of my active duty friends may, sadly, not experience for many years to come.
Maybe someday the military will have enough trust in their members to treat them like the strong, capable men and women they are always telling them they are, instead of running the “greatest Air Force in the world” like the world’s biggest kindergarten.
“Common Reasons” — I’m looking through these, and realizing that many comments are the same! What a horrible thing. Is it just that so many women are overweight, or maybe it’s that the Air Forces standards are entirely too strict. I choose to believe the latter. What I do not understand is that at 5’4″ my max weight was 146 pounds, which was not a problem for me. I was lucky. A man however had a tremendous amount of leeway. It is however a “man’s world”, the military is no exception. Another reason that is true to me is sexual harassment. I was often hearing about comments my supervisor made about my breast size. The funny thing is that my supervisor was female. She was trying so hard to fit in with the guys, she alienated the females. I was told, when I was three days from my due date with my child, that “I’m thinking you should get out.” In the military you do what your told. I wasn’t given the option, my appointment with separations was made for me, heaven forbid I get a “failure to go”. I did what I was told, and now I am suffering for it.
The AF was the best thing that happened to me, and I’ve lost it. Unfortunately, I can never regain it due to regulations about being married to active duty, and having a child. All I have are my memories, but now I think, if the military is going to do this to me, do I really want anything to do with it anyway? I think not.
Main thread. Comments follow:
Ex RAAF Driver Writes — I was asked to leave because of my feelings for another woman. I have now been with this woman for the past 20 years. Besides the usual degrading received from the senior NCO’s, and the constant “why are YOU here” attitude from the men, I actually wanted to make the RAAF my 20+ year career. The part that hurt the most was that the girls in barracks who fooled around with any guy that happened to walk by, were given a slap on the wrist and told not to whore around again. Meanwhile, my partner and I stayed quiet, lived on different RAAF bases, in different states, and yet we were the danger to the moral of our fellow RAAFies. Go figure that one! Good luck to all of you out there that manage to have a life, outside the military. Or are lucky enough not to get caught.
RESPONSE: – Unlike you, I wasn’t asked to leave I was forced to leave. I had planned to make the Air force my career. Yes I was a lesbian in the Air Force but I kept my nose clean and lived off base. Unfortunately there was a stabbing in one of the women’s barracks which of course led to an investigation and in that investigation it was found that she was a lesbian who had just broken up with a civilian woman. I didn’t know either of these women but a friend of mine did and she was being investigated. To save her own neck in being separated from the service she gave names of others and I was on the top of that list which led to me being investigated. I was offered the same deal, give names and stay in but I couldn’t do it so I was eventually discharged. Up until my discharge I was ridiculed and abandoned by everyone I knew because they all thought I was the one giving the names to the OSI. I was told the reason for separation was they couldn’t take the risk of me “blackmailing” someone down the line. Had I wanted to get anyone in trouble I would have taken the offer that was given to me at the start. This was truly and still is a sad part of my life. I still believe in the Air Force and recommend it to anyone who doesn’t know what to do with their life. I unfortunately knew the wrong people and didn’t have the friend that I thought I had..
I Left the Air Force Because of the Weight Standards” — I joined the Air Force in 1987. I stayed in for 9 years. The whole time I was in I struggled to maintain the required weight standards. I was booted out because we had an Operation Readiness Inspection and the inspection team randomly selected some weight cards of personal close to their maximum weight. I was selected and had to report to the hospital for a surprise weigh-in. I was over my max about 5lbs. I was put on the weight management program. However at that time the Air Force was in the process of downsizing and 2000 persons were dismissed. I was one. All overweight personal had to be ought of the service by May 15th 1987. The clincher was the very next month the weight standard for the Air Force was raised and I would have been within the standard.
“Weight Standards” — I have been and am currently on active duty for 11 years and 4 months. I don’t think you could find a person more dedicated and committed to the oath I took back in 1986. During my career I’ve made many strides that I am very proud of: I was promoted to E-4 below-the zone, I was a John Levitow award winner in my professional military education pursuits, I have a Bachelor’s degree, and a Master’s degree. Sounds wonderful doesn’t it?!
Well, once I got to my second base, my career stagnated. I appealed to everyone that I could (even the IG) to allow me the opportunity to retrain into something that would benefit both the Air Force and myself . My request has fallen on deaf ears.
My ultimate defeat has come in the form of a tape measure and a weight management program that is selective in who is measured and who isn’t. This measurement has labeled me a failure, has stopped my career progression and has threatened the livelihood of my family. This method of measurement (which is subjective) has told me that all my accomplishments and contributions are not worth the time and dedication I’ve given the Air Force and my Country. No matter that hydrostatic weighing (the most accurate measurement of body fat)says I’m within the Air Force body fat standard of 32%. Ask any commander, first sergeant, medical professional or anyone associated with the program, their real, off-the-record opinions about the program, and most of them will tell you, it isn’t the best program, but until it changes it’s all they have. But ask the outstanding performers that the Air Force is losing every year to the program their thoughts, and there you will have your story.
I can’t tell you how I wish this program can be revamped and made effective for those of us not born to a specific body type. There are four different female body types, and we are all being measured against one. Check the math. I’ve convinced a few, that this program is unfair, but more than that I realized that even though the Air Force deems me a failure, I’m not. I’ve served honorable and faithfully for 11 years and I know that when one door closes, another opens. God Bless!!
“Why I Got Out of the USAF” — I got out of the Air force for several reasons. I was extremely disappointed in the AF. Where was the teamwork, the pride and the brother/sisterhood that was taught to us in Basic Training? There was none. I worked in the base hospital and lived in the hospital dormitory. Everyone was out for themselves. I was very ill (with mono) and all my roommate could worry about was her hair and when her date would arrive. No one offered to help me with anything (nice teamwork). I was also was not appreciative of the racism that was all around me. My superintendent, of color, always made sure that our patients of color always had an appointment, while the poor white man, needing an appointment , had to just wait it out (and I could not say a word).
Don’t get me wrong, I had some good times too, but I wish it would have been different. The militia taught me a lot, but it also aged me too, beyond my years. I will never regret getting out, but I don’t think I regret going in either. It made me what I am today (wiser). — Forever an A1C
I had planned on the Army being my career. I never participated in internships offered at school because I was going to be a career officer. I loved the ideals of being an officer, honor, duty country…In general I value my military experience and think it was the single most influential factor in my adult life second to motherhood, however, I was asked to forge a document, another time I was given a job that had nothing to do with my branch or my capabilities, I was excess and they wouldn’t let me leave to another unit. But the breaker was when I was given another project on top of everything else I did because I was reliable and my boss could count on it being done right and on time while my co-worker (another lieutenant) was working barely 7 hours to my 12 hours. I decided to pursue a civilian career where I may be promoted and given raises in accordance with my accomplishments. It’s been 8 years since I resigned from the Army and I still miss some aspects of the Army, especially the camaraderie but I have greater control over my life and my choices and I am being rewarded for my accomplishments.
I had such high hopes as a young woman just out of high school entering the Marine Corps. I wanted to use the GI Bill when I completed my time . Don’t get me wrong, I met some wonderful people that I never will forget. The Marine Corps environment was one that squelched all my enthusiasm. I attended a very good training program (Ground Radio in San Diego, Cal.) I excelled in my class, came out top in my class. I was the only woman to graduate from my class and was told I would not be promoted because the 1st MAN in the class got promoted and I was not a MAN!!! Then they had the nerve to ask me if I wanted to go to officer’s school and extend my enlistment for four more years. RIGHT!!! I encountered nothing but harassment when I went anywhere on base in my uniform. As a young girl from a rural area, I heard more vulgar statements than I ever had, and they were all aimed at me! Why would a nice Christian girl want to put up with that any longer than she had to.
“Weight Standards” — I spent 8 yrs, 5 months and 11 days in the Air Force and I loved it. I have never been skinny and fought the weight program the time that I was in. I was, however, progressing quite well when I got pregnant with my third child. I was approximately 12 weeks pregnant when I was called in for a random body fat measurement check. All those out there who have had children know what pregnancy can do to your body, even at 12 weeks. I told them that I was pregnant and had a profile on file in the orderly room. They (men) didn’t care. They did the measurements and I was over. The doctors said that 3 months pregnant wouldn’t make any difference. I was devastated!! I had planned to make the AF my career! My husband is also active duty but we had no problems with daycare or anything at that time. I have never had any problems with harassment, sexual or otherwise, and had a very fulfilling 8 1/2 yrs in the AF.
I really miss the AF and am not thrilled with this dependant wife thing at all. I am, however, thrilled at the opportunity to spend the time with my youngest child and realize now what I missed while my older two were in our fabulous base child development center. My baby is almost 4 now!
“My reasons were many!” — My first year and a half in the USMC was a living hell. I had a SSgt. that made me the “scapegoat” in a situation I was not guilty of and then took me into a changing area to “Console” me. If it was not for my field jacket being draped over my are in front of me…I would have REALLY found out how much he LIKED me. If you catch my drift. This was done with his 9 month pregnant girlfriend waiting for him outside. When I excused myself to leave…he took it personally. During my two weeks of “extra duty” he watched me from a distance to make sure that I did not leave early. He thought I did not see him. He then proceeded to stalk me, knowing every move I made on duty and off. He finally was able to overload my work capacity to a point where I could not keep up and made a mistake. After telling me that he would handle the mistake and I would not get into trouble…I ended up in Office Hours. After 1 week forfeiture of pay and 2 weeks restriction to barracks and extra duty…I was rescued by a very understanding LtCol and pulled out from underneath this boy’s grasp. I say boy, because a man doesn’t act like this. After that he tried to intertwine me into a scandal with a GySgt. I was even interviewed by an NIS agent about the so called incident. After being asked what my opinion was of this SSgt who brought these charges, I told the agent I thought he was an “—hole”. He never asked why or I would have told him. As assumed, I was not charged because I was not involved. I was on duty at the time of the incident. Ha Ha!
I was told by a MSgt one time that when it ceases to be fun, get out! After six years and not being a very good runner…it was no longer fun anymore.
“Ending My Enlistment” — I left the Navy after my first enlistment because I applied for all the schools and duty stations I could and was rejected for all of them. I left to continue college and have since called about going back in but my specialty (Forensic Science and Business Management) is not needed in the military. My six years as a Corpsman were filled with excellent training and top rate sailors to learn from. I’m sorry things didn’t work out.
Weight Standards — I spent 7 years, 1 month, and 11 days in the Air Force. In that time, I was never harassed nor did I have any trouble doing my job. I was honorably discharged due to non-compliance with the Air Force’s weight management program.
My max weight was 144 and I weighed 129. But, because I didn’t fulfill the measurement standard, I was 1″ too big in my waist area, I was discharged. I fought for over a year to lose the extra inch. But, in the end, I lost. Why did I gain an inch and sacrifice my career?
Well, to put it bluntly, I was penalized for deciding to be a mother. I had twin girls and was told by several doctors that the only way to lose that inch was to have plastic surgery. Basically, if I decided to have the surgery I would have been able to remain in. But, I would not be able to have any more children. I wouldn’t want to take the chance of messing up the surgery. Also, at the time I was only 25 and I hadn’t decided if I was through having children.
If I could re-enlist, I would. But the military would have to accept that not all women can remain Barbie Dolls all their lives. Especially when the men don’t always keep their Baywatch shapes.
I don’t see how a person who consistently does their job and performs above standards can be cast aside just because they want to have children.
I would be interested in finding out just how many women enlisted or officer have lost their jobs due to inefficient and sometimes unfair weight standards.
I am a LT in the Navy and will be getting out in November. The main reason is that as part of a dual military family, I felt my children needed to know one of us would always be there. I feel sad about leaving but that sadness has been tempered by a few things in the Navy and outside it as well. First, a military career no longer has the prestige attached to it that it once did. When I tell civilians I am in the military, I usually get some kind of pitying look like, “Oh, you poor thing…” I joined the Navy to serve my country and have always been very proud of what I do. The American people just do not appreciate our sacrifices anymore.
Second, it is a fact of life of military women that we must be stronger, smarter and more hardworking than our male counterparts. I made it my point to be the best I could be at my job, to work longer and harder than anyone else. I’m tired of having to defend myself against all these news stories of women who want something for nothing. I’m tired of watching as women who are unqualified are pushed through certain programs simply because of their gender. Its dangerous and unfair. Don’t misunderstand, I know there are women who have had their careers ruined by sexual harassment, these are not the ones to which I am referring.
Third, the Navy no longer cares about taking care of its people. I could go on all day about that but I will not bore you. I will just say that in many ways I still love the Navy and am proud to have served but I can’t wait to be a regular person again.
I left active duty because as a single parent, I wanted to give my daughter a better life than running around the world. The Army deserved better also. I did however, go into the Reserves where I eventually retired. During my 10 years on active duty, I never experienced all the “sexual harassment” others complain about. Sure, it’s there if you let it persist but rarely does it become a problem. I think some women are a little to sensitive. Act professionally and you’ll be treated that way. I don’t regret anything.
Main Thread: Comments follow:
I left the Active Army 6 years ago for several reasons. But after reading several reasons of why Women have left the service I need to list some reasons that did not effect my decision to separate:
1. I was never sexually harassed or harassed in any way
2. I was not nor have I ever been a victim of any sort and will never be a victim as I continue my military career in the National Guard.
I have never heard of so many women that have been victims or have been harassed. Where have I been? In 10 years in the service is it possible that I have missed all this?
Hint: If you act like a strong, professional woman you will be treated like one.
RESPONSE: No. If you act like a strong professional woman, you are pegged a bitch, dyke, or slut. Yes. I’d like to know where you’ve been.
A former Marine writes… — When I first went into the Marine Corps, (even AFTER bootcamp), I had every intention of going the 20-year duration. I tried very hard to overlook a lot of the uncomfortable (to say the least) situations: the sexual harassment, racism (I’m African-American), having to work for and obey incompetent superiors, the lack of travel for women in the communications center at that time (only 2 women rotated the entire 3 1/2 years I was stationed at Camp XX, and this was after every one of us were pretty much FORCED to volunteer for overseas duty!), and the insulting re-enlistment bonuses that the government was offering com center workers at that time. It all became much too burdensome and frustrating, and after 4 years, I got out. And though I am still proud to wear the name Marine, because I EARNED it, and though I still feel that after being out 13 years, that I had a lot to offer the Corps and could have had a great career, (and was told that often enough), I have no regrets being out and away from it. And I never looked at it as my loss, but the Corps.
I was undecided on my decision to reenlist. I had a hearing loss in one ear — that did not interfere with my duties as a CTA (glorified secretary). I was born with the hearing loss and when I went through the medical screening in XX they asked me if I wanted to stay in; it was my choice. I decided to stay.
[During my first duty station] in 1984-1985 I was harassed by my Executive Office and supervisor for the last eight months I was in there. They tried to bully me into taking a medical discharge and I refused to sign the paperwork. I had to get counseling to deal with the stress. Finally after a few months of counseling I laughed at her one day when she cornered me in the Master Chief’s office; she got angry and threw something at me. I was moved to another office the next day. If I had known that all I had to do was laugh at her to get transferred to another office I would of done it that first day. When I first joined the Navy I was immature and extremely sensitive to things that were said to me. The experience taught me to speak up for myself; forced me to mature greatly in a short period of time; I learned how to protect myself emotionally from others.
My following duty station was great. I was sent to CMIO in XX for eighteen months. We served under LCDR M. This was my first taste of true team work that should be the goal of every duty station within the Navy. My self esteem was greatly damaged and my new supervisor worked hard to build it up. He may of had a foul mouth; but he took great interest in working with; leading; and learning from the people under him. There were quite a few civilians that worked with us. They were great. Many of them welcomed us into their homes; especially the single ones that were too far away from their families to go home for the holidays. I miss some of the friendships that I made during that time frame. I had a second supervisor that came in after Al transfered and she was just as great (minus the foul language). I switched to another office for the last 18 months of my enlistment.
I had just placed in the paperwork to extend my enlistment for 2 years. It was a decision I decided to put off. I was not sure if I wanted to stay another four years or not. Than we got word that either reenlist for four years or get out on April 8, 1988 as part of military budget cuts. I had also found out that I would be working at the same duty station as the XO that I served with [my first duty station]. He had been punished unofficially for his conduct and verbally warned. [I found this out a few months after I had transferred.] The idea of working with him made the decision for me. The stress of working with that man again, was not worth enlisting for four years.
I went into the Army with the idea of making it a career. I tried to overlook the problems — non-fulfillment of my enlistment guarantee, sexual and other harassment, etc. — but after the first two years of my four-year enlistment I was fed up with the military. I served my time and got out. No, I did not join the reserves, nor have I used many of my benefits. Even after 19 years as a civilian, it hurts to think about some of the things that happened. I have generally tried to avoid any contact with the military or VA.
When people ask me this, I try to explain it simply: barracks life. As a single enlisted woman without children, that’s where I was expected to live. Never mind some of the women I worked with were collecting “rent plus”
I have very mixed emotions about resigning from the Army after seven years. I am currently a successful company commander who is married to another former commander. We met and married in the Army, and now see how hopeless a dual career will be, despite our excellent track records. Ever since we got married, we have had to negotiate with our branches to station us together. Unlike some of you, we don’t have the struggles of trying to raise small children. And really our separations have been manageable–so far. We just know that our time has run out and that one of our careers must be sacrificed or else it will be our marriage that is sacrificed.
I am so relieved to hear first-hand that someone understands the choice I must make. I work with all men who have had their spouses willingly give up everything to devote themselves to being the perfect Army wife. These men do not understand the rigors of being a dual household nor do they understand why I would give up a promising career, regardless if I feel my marriage is more important. I sit in fear of the evaluation I will receive because I must discuss my resignation. I try to convince myself that in my heart I know I have served my soldiers and my country in the very best way I could have. However, I know my pride will hurt if I am punished for being honest and admitting I want to leave the service.
I am thankful to get this off my chest and to realize that many dignified, professional soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen can be strong enough to go after what they want, despite how unpopular it may be. Sounds like I would’ve been proud to serve with any of you.
I left a bright, exciting 10-1/2 year career in the Air Force in 1986 because I just could not take the harassment any longer. I was the only woman flying in a research and development organization. The “boys will be boys” mentality of my superiors, even Wing Commander, let me know loud and clear that no matter how hard I worked, how fast I made promotions, life at home and TDY would always be a struggle. Over those years, they finally wore me down. Even now, in remembering, I get a sick feeling.
The best thing to come from it, though, is that I now have two wonderful sons. (After two miscarriages while on active duty.) It would have been impossible to properly raise children the way my pilot husband and I had to live on active duty. I can truly say that there is ONE recently retired Colonel who was sensitized (by fire!) to what women deal with in the military. One down, how many million to go?
A Marine Veteran’s Reason for Leaving — One of the deciding factors of my leaving the Marine Corps was an upcoming marriage. I had been married once while in the Marine Corps and that was a total disaster. My husband and I (at the time) were hardly ever together due to the deployment of the squadron life. I married when I was 23 years old and at the time, I was a CPL. He and I divorced and went our separate ways. I truly loved the Marine Corps. I believed in all that it stood for and till the day that I die, I will believe in this organization of proud men and women. My heart still falters when I see that [flag] high and tight or when I see a fighter jet crossing the bluest of skies. I have kept the memories tucked inside of my heart and on the down days, I slowly unfold a memory and allow the joy to seep back into my life. Oh yes, I have had some horrible days in the service but let me tell you what… those horrible days were superseded by insurmountable experiences all over this globe!!! All of this and I also had the “Band of Brothers” to lean on and experience the world with. Sometimes that “Band of Brothers” let me down and those were the hardest of all let-downs. This may have helped edge me out of the Corps also. I think that I received a fair shake in the Corps and I believe that I performed my duties with dignity, integrity and with professionalism. Not every male Marine out there would agree with me on that issue I am sure. One thing that irritated me were the immature men that so often crossed a strong woman’s path. If I was forceful, I was a “bitch.” If I was soft, I was not worthy of the uniform and if I didn’t put out, I was a “bitch” and “probably a lesbian”. That no-win situation was, after 9 years, defeating. I’m am happy that women read this stuff. The men would think I was too soft to have ever served in their Corps! Little do they know! I met a wonderful Marine who stole my heart and ran with it. He and I exited the Marine Corps at our EAS’s and married. He and I are in college now and we now stand a fair chance of living our entire life without forced separation. Though the memories are all mine, though I sometimes ache for the haze of a South Carolina sunrise on the rifle range, I believe that I will carry my Marine lessons for the duration of my life and will be 100 times more powerful than I ever thought I could be. SEMPER FIDELIS!
I left active duty after four years for a couple of reasons. I am still in the National Guard. The first reason I left active duty was because I was fed up with being discriminated against by higher ranking NCO’s of color. The second reason I left active duty was for my husband. I didn’t want to be separated from him. I plan on staying in the National Guard until they close the door on me. I guess you could say I am a lifer.
I left the military because:
ONE: I was married and wanted to have children and didn’t think it was fair to have both of us just take off to wherever every time the military beck and calls.
TWO: I’ve seen so much I didn’t agree with most of which was the “boys will be boys” political stuff. For some idiotic reason I thought it would be more professional than it was.
THREE: I was told I could make more on the outside but after I got out that didn’t follow through.
A Navy veteran’s story: – I don’t think deep down, that I ever really wanted to make the military a career choice, but I did join with the intent of learning a trade.
I left the Navy because I was fed up with the way things were progressing in my career path and the way things were being run and the rules that were in place were a bit off the mark. I realize that rules are laid out for a purpose, but some of them are a bit silly and a bit extreme. Here is an example of what I mean:
I became pregnant with my second child, while in the Navy. I was told by my doctor to eat eat eat. We used to be able to go down the hall and pick up some juice, a pastry, or anything in the morning at breaktime and eat it. Then they changed those rules. So I wasn’t allowed to do the one thing my doctor had asked me to do. Sounds kind of silly, I realize, but I had to go to the doctor, and get a note to give to my CO that said I had permission to eat a snack in the morning. Then I had a guilt trip for eating in front of everyone else! Thanks.
After becoming a dependant wife and after my husband got out of the Navy, we both decided enough was enough, and we didn’t want anything more to do with the service. We both were fed up and frustrated with life in general.
We moved back to the states, back to where I came from, and my husband got a job. We were really enjoying not being in the military anymore until…the Naval Reserve Recruiters started to call. “We have this, we have that, you must come back…..” This went on for almost 2 years. It was driving us crazy. Finally, one day, my husband gave in because, being a Seabee, the pot sweetened–a bonus for joining the reserves. So he signed on the dotted line. Then the recruiter started working on me. I was a bit harder to sell, but she knew right where to get me–in my garden. So, I joined. They did not have a billet for me, so I ended up in a SIMA Unit, doing the admin thing.
When I signed on the dotted line, I only did so for two years. I figured that if I liked it, I would do more. Besides, what could possibly happen in two years? Well this happened.
I was activated from my SIMA unit, the only one, and was shipped over to Saudi Arabia to a Fleet Hospital for 2 1/2 months. We were about 80 miles from the front lines, doing disbursing in a tent, with everybody’s pay records with us, and everybody was on direct deposit. Sure, that made some kind of sense.
After my little journey to the desert, I was quite anxious to get back into my reserve status, and went immediately back to drilling. I was the exception, not the rule. You were allowed 3 months off, but I wanted to get back to what I knew best. Funny thing happened, though. I wasn’t allowed back into the SIMA unit, I was transferred to the Fleet Hospital unit. I was pretty upset with the move, but settled in quite nicely. I found great happiness with my new CO, but still wasn’t as happy as I wanted to be. I signed papers to go IRR and stopped drilling until my IRR time was up, then didn’t reenlist.
Do I miss it? Sometimes. But, with the regular Navy, the Reserves, and one war behind me, I have plenty of memories and plenty of “sea stories” to last me a lifetime. And unfortunately, with Desert Storm behind me, I also have a life of misery ahead of me, thanks to this unknown Gulf War Syndrome–but that’s another story for another time, perhaps. The thing I miss the most about the Navy–the people and friends I have made over the years. What a great experience I had, as well as a Navy “adventure”. Remember the Navy mottos: Never Again Volunteer Yourself….and..It’s not just a job, it’s an adventure!
A former Army captain writes: — I left the military as a Captain, year group 89 with three years to go until the Major’s Board. Although my records were excellent and my specialty in the Medical Service would virtually guarantee my next promotion, I chose to leave after 9 years of service under VSI Early Out. Why? I had a promising career as only one of three female Army medical entomologists in the total Army and I loved my job as it related to preventive medicine.
Reason: I married a week before my commission and during those 9 years in the military my husband (also active duty) and I were separated for 4 years total. We both were dedicated to our commitments and yet we struggled raising two small children who are now 6 and 3 years old. It was extremely hard to balance military requirements with family when both of us were constantly deploying.
After a miscarriage during a deployment I decided to put my family first from then on and since we wanted a third child I decided it was time to leave active duty. My husband also retired after 15 years and now we are rediscovering things with our marriage, children, and life. I am still Reserves though, as I am dedicated to my specialty and what it provides for the Army during times of crisis but I no longer have to put my family second and I know now what I have missed during those 9 years and not about to miss anything more.
A major in the Army Reserves: — The day I let go of the paperwork to “volunteer” out before the closing of the VSI benefits, I wound-up in the hospital dehydrated. Everything started happening at once – husband and I separating; leaving the Army; what was I going to do next? Stress blew my body away – got laid up for a week during TDY in Pennsylvania. I had hoped that there would be enough volunteers as the year before; that there wouldn’t have to be a RIF board for year group 83. We only got about 50%. I drove down to PERSCOM the night before to turn in the paperwork the last day and drive back to school.
I’ve been asked why I didn’t hang-on through the board. At the time my records were excellent for the Major’s Board; but my last OER hadn’t made it in yet. I had come from an assignment with a LTC (passed over twice) who didn’t like working with women. Due to his own insecurities and paranoia, he intimidated my rater – another woman – into putting a “2″ on the front of my OER. Funny, everything else was max’d……. that “2″ would kill me and he knew it. This man would get in a woman’s face, literally, yelling and shaking and strive to make her step back and/or sit down. I never did. It wasn’t just an Artillery thing; all I had done was asked a question and wound-up standing there wondering what the hell his problem was. Of course, once HE sat down, I asked my question again.
The RIF Boards were looking for anything. I’d heard of stellar guys with perfect records getting booted. Why forfeit the VSI pay/benefits? It wasn’t a decision made easily. Both my bosses (a Major and a Colonel) sat with me going over all the options and the different monies (VSI lump sum, VSI payments, RIF lump sum). Branches were calling folks and telling them what “third” they fell in. Even without that “2″ in my files, I was told I was in the bottom third. I couldn’t even imagine what kind of file others had to fall in the middle and top third. Amazing.
When I got commissioned my plans were for 20 years. With the very few men I encountered that made work less enjoyable, the soldiers made it fun. Although I wasn’t very good at playing the political games and schmoozing, anyone I worked for or heard of me new that this lady got the job done – while still being able to maintain a sense of humor.
I found myself a Drill IMA (Individual Mobilization Augmentee) slot near home and do my 24 drills and two week Annual Training. I got promoted to Major only a few months later than I would’ve on active duty, and I’m thankful that I’m drilling in a Regular Army unit versus Reserves. I’m still making some close friends with fellow Artillery Officers that are assigned to the Resource Management Office; and prior Battalion Commanders are still finding me and calling from their new jobs, since retirement, to keep contacts should I want to leave government employment later.
I miss active duty a lot, but I’ve also observed a lack of camaraderie and team work out in the ranks. It’s not the same Army since the downsizing, and maybe it’s best I did leave now – rather like my husband and I leaving on good terms versus hating each. My whole career is worth reflecting back on and I would do it all again. It’s the people that made it all worth while for me.
I still have two very close friends on Active Duty that I went through AROTC with. I and another of our foursome, took the VSI. The four of us still stay close in touch and get together every once in a while. They know it’s STILL difficult for me being out, but at least I can live it through them – they’re Infantry and Artillery, I can’t go wrong!!!!!
An Air Force veteran writes: — I spent 4 years in the Air Force from 1980 to 1984. When I got out I had 2 children and was pregnant with my third. I realized I couldn’t afford a babysitter for 3 children. I had also had some conflicts with childcare and week-end work when my husband was TDY. I value my time in the Air Force and the experiences I gained from it. My children are more important than working though. My husband is still in the Air Force and I understand some of the things he has to deal with, better than a non-prior service spouse, because of the time I spent in the Air Force.
An Army veteran writes: — I spent 8 years in the Army and married life/motherhood just don’t go hand in hand with it. It was a wonderful career while it lasted – the different duty posts, meeting so many people, learning discipline and maturing, etc. The longer I’m out, the prouder I am to have served. I think most young adults would benefit from a short stint in the Army. I met my husband while over in Germany and we are still married, 17 years later. He also left the Army but returned several years later in a National Guard capacity. I’m glad to see active interest out there for women vets.
An Army veteran writes: — I don’t think my being a woman had anything to do with my leaving the Army. I left for several reasons.
1. When I joined I did not intend to spend 20 years in the military. I joined for the sense of self-discipline, responsibility and skills I would receive. I joined for the travel, I spent five years in Germany and had been to more countries that most people by the time I was 25. I joined for the $20K, Uncle Sam promised me for college. I had accomplished everything I wanted to do, I now wanted to do other things, like go to school full-time.
2. I was not happy with my job. When I re-enlisted after three years, I did so to go to language school, something I’m very glad I did. After language school, I went to the Military Police Investigators Course and was assigned as a Military Police Investigator in Germany. I soon discovered that this was not my forte, I had previously been a Military Police Customs Inspector and was one of the best according to my supervisors. However, I did not have the disposition to be an investigator, unfortunately, once you have an identifier, such as Investigator, it is difficult to avoid being assigned to positions requiring your identifier. In other words, I no longer wanted to be an Investigator; I wanted to put my uniform back on and be a soldier.
3. My one and only sibling, my older brother, had passed away the previous year and I felt it was time to come home.
4. Yes, I did join the reserves. I reclassified to another MOS in the reserves and did three years in the reserves. I then left the reserves, but was not entirely happy in the reserves so I got out. I have since spoken with several high-ranking reservists, who agree that my reserve unit was/is a bit peculiar and I am now looking into going back into the reserves. I liked being a soldier and if I can go back and find a good unit, one that focuses on accomplishing the mission and taking care of the soldiers, I will gladly return to serving my country.
5. I enjoyed my life in the Army and can honestly say that my first four years on active duty were wonderful and I worked with some really great people. My last two years on active duty I view with mixed emotion, there were good times and bad, but I’m glad I made the decision to get out when I did. It has allowed me to refocus on the events that happened–I was not in the best unit and I was not the best soldier–we both could have given and gotten alot more out of those two years.