leave.htm

I am responding to the Navy-Midwife post. I am shocked that a midwife would not be aware or sensitive to the dangers of Depo-Provera. I am also disappointed that someone would recommend this method to be used as mandatory birth control for military women. I served honorably in the US Navy for almost five years, I met my husband while serving at my first duty station (a ship) and decided to use Depo. After one year of sporadic spotting, painful cramping and a huge decrease in sex drive I decided to stop and use condoms. I never got pregnant, in fact now, 3 yrs later, I still cannot get pregnant!! This is devastating to me. I have terribly irregular cycles and still endure painful cramping. I went to my doctor to find out why my husband and I were unable to conceive after 2yrs of actively trying, her answer..........DEPO!

I'm sorry but what somebody said concerning mandatory birth control is just plain crazy. If that's the case then all the male sailors better get ready for their vasectomy. I'm so sick of this double standard for women and men. Oh we aren't supposed to have babies but men can go ahead and make babies sometimes leaving women in foreign countries. Quit standing up for their rights and stand up for your own as a women who is proud to serve her country and if you chose to have a child then so be it. You are still good enough and smart enough to do the best job you can do, if the shoe was on the other foot for men then this wouldn't even be a discussion. I'm fighting for my countries freedoms as well as my own!

Wow! I remember why I joined the AF now. I didn't join the Army because my husband was AD Army and I thought they treated their people as though they needed a babysitter all the time. I didn't join the navy. I never received any adverse treatment while I was pregnant. I worked 12 hour rotating shifts until I was 36 weeks pregnant with my first child. I would have stayed with my crew for 12 hour shifts with my second child if not for my squadron commander ordering me to leave crew when I had worked eight hours. I intentionally scheduled my appointments for when I was on crew rest and I never asked for special treatment. I had a commitment to my crew and to my country. I went remote and left my kids when they were 4 and 2 and went through a divorce at the same time. I didn't like it and I didn't want to go, but Leavenworth wouldn't have looked good on a resume.

stationed in Sigonella Sicily in 1989, I was single. During the time I was pregnant with my first child I knew a lot of women who were either pregnant and getting out (I was given this option and refused) or getting an abortion. Staying in was not an easy decision to make, I loved the Navy and even more loved the baby growing. The only special treatment i got since it was close to me transferring back CONUS was to go a little early to make sure it was still safe to fly. I ended up giving my son to my mother to raise so I could stay in. I received no special treatment while I was pregnant, the only thing I asked for the first time was a mask for when they assigned me to paint rocks. For any male sailor reading this and thinking that women get "special" treatment when they are pregnant think about their wives or girlfriends when they are pregnant and civilians. Do they receive any special treatment? Back then just like they did with sexual harassment they found ways to make life uncomfortable for you without breaking any rules.

This is in response to the one who said we need mandatory birth control. First and foremost, we are in a free country where I have to right to do what I want to my body. The military can not tell a woman to be on mandatory birth control. For myself, I can not have a hormonal form of birth control...do you recommend an IUD? Then the situation of ectopic pregnancies does increase, therefore women will be flown off the ship for emergency surgery. The statistics show that the percentage of pregnant women in the civilian side as opposed to military is no different. Welcome

Mandatory birth control is absolutely not the solution to the problem. No one is going to force me to take hormones that screw up my body's estrogen and progesterone levels, which is what birth control does. It is unnatural to play with your body's hormone levels. In fact, some women on depo-provera lose their ability to conceive children permanently, even after they discontinue the medicine. It renders them sterile. Not menstruating is NOT normal. Go to plannedparenthood.com or other reproductive health sites to see the facts. Perhaps a huge distribution of condoms on the ship and scare tactics such as classes on STDs and unwanted pregnancies and all the nastiness that goes along with them. Maybe that won't work either. But harming people's health, when it's not getting shot at by the enemy on a mission, is just stupid. It also sounds very misogynistic. I can't believe someone would be concerned with the amount of space tampons and maxi pads would take up in the trash. To that end, let's get rid of cigarette packs, condom wrappers, disposable toilet paper... Ridiculous. Asinine.

Posted: 5 Sep 01: "Women in the Military Discharged for Pregnancy Prior to November 1975

Just found the site and didn't have time to read it all, but as (to my knowledge) to having been the first woman in the Marine Corps to have a baby and stay on active duty (January 23, 1970), I have a lot of opinions. The Corps was GREAT to me, as were my fellow Marines...and I do mean fellow, as I worked in an all male work section. When my daughter was borne, January 19, 1975, the issue of pregnancy still had not been finalized. My boss said, "they let you have one, we just won't tell them about this one." Again, I was the only female in an all male unit. I loved the Corps and I loved my kids. I knew what my choices had to be, and now that they are 29 and 26, I know I made the right ones. Thanks for all those who supported me. I never let the Corps or my family down. Any comments, I'd be happy to respond. TOPMOM aka Terri, e-mail: trenner@cweb.com

I was in the Air Force from 1986-1989. I got out on a honorable pregnancy discharge. I thought long and hard about staying in or getting out. Even my son's father tried to talk me into getting an abortion...something about ruining my career. He said he didn't want an instant family. He was in the military himself. I was trained in the military as a Radiologic Specialist. I am still in the Radiology field specializing in Mammography. I love what I do. I have alot of patients over the years tell me that they are so glad that they had me to examine and explain to them what is going on with their cancer, etc. I tell them that they can thank the Air Force for a perfect fit with my profession. They trained me and they treated me good for the most part. I got out for 2 very good and legitimate reasons: I couldn't get child support

from the father until I won the paternity court case which could not be finished until the baby was born and 6 months old (he demanded 2 DNA tests) and then everything wrapped up. This took over one year. The Air Force told me I could have $70.00 more a month when the child was born. This would not even pay for 1 week of day care. (no family near and less than average pay, also). So, I would have to move out of the dorms, go on a 18 month waiting list for base housing, and find a 2 bedroom apt. because 1 bedrooms said you had to move to a 2 bedroom after the kid was

He's 13 years old now. His father still isn't around...calls once a year. I imagine I could have had more of a career if I had stayed in. My pay isn't too great now, but my job is fulfilling and meaningful. I'm grateful for my military medical training and my son. If I hadn't been in the AF at that time and place, I wouldn't have my wonderful son. I have been a single parent until just last year...now my son has to share : ) I was a little spoiled before I went into the service. Going into the military was a rude awakening for me...Private Benjamin 2. They "cured" me of alot of that !! Also, becoming a single mother helped, as you know would happen. Chance and fate put me on my current path. I'm grateful for both !! Make the most out of your life. Follow the golden rules and try not to step on anyone. Be the best you can be. Thanks for reading my experience.

Posted: 10 Jun 01: "Sexism in the Military" (In response to the 8 Jun 01 post)

Huh Rah Gunny! Glad to see there is at least one of you out there in the new breed to put them in their place! However, your entry date says a lot. I remember the days when WMs could only shoot pistols -- if there was a pistol team at the base and when a reserve CO refused to "allow" us to qualify with rifles when rifle qualification opened to women. That was about 1975. When I said things hadn't changed. I meant the attitudes expressed by the whiners, complainers and sexists. I was promoted to SSgt when I was 7 months pregnant and before maternity uniforms. So if you feel you have made superwoman status, glad to hear it and glad to see the attitudes and support systems are in place -- finally. If you viewed my comments as sexist that was not the intent, but to pass on that everyone makes decisions and has to live with them -- in or out of the military. And that in the end careers come and go. Children are ours forever -- whether you are on Oki or stateside. From the daughter of a WWII WAVE, 16 years USMC service, a 36 year working woman, charter member of WIMSA, American Legion, Marine Corps Leage and WMA. Semper Fi

Get out of my way and don't waste my time!

I sit here writing to all those individuals and I do say individuals who say women who are pregnant and/or have children have no place in the military. I have written in before to describe why I stayed in the Marine Corps. Now I write to ask a few questions to those individuals.

I am willing to give my life for you and for your family why can't you see the simplicity of that?

I will kill the enemy to protect you and your family why can't you see the simplicity of that?

I am warrior and a killer even though I gave birth to a child why can't you respect that?

What do I have to do short of sleeping with you, mimicking you or kissing your ass to have you respect me as a fellow warrior?

Why do you not see my sacrifice as worthwhile and creditable as those individuals who display their gender on the outside?

Why can you not put aside your old outdated opinions and treat me as the equal I am?

Think what you could learn from me and what you could teach me. Let us make a stronger nation together not divide it by inconsequential opinions. Let us be a team or Warriors and a band of brothers and sisters, not a cluster of sexists and whiners. In the Marine Corps it is our opinion not to leave our fellow Marine behind whether he or she is dead, injured, pregnant, lazy or stupid.

By the way I have a civilian husband, three sons (one I just gave birth to three months ago), I have been in the Marine Corps 19 years, I am Gunnery Sergeant, I am in charge of a group of Marines in highly deployable helicopter squadron, and I am about to leave on another six month deployment to Okinawa Japan. Huh Rah Marine Corps!!!

P.S. On a final note I am breastfeeding my son as a write this letter.

Well, ladies, things haven't changed that much since I was released from active duty in 1971. It is no different in civilian world except that you do not have the contract hanging over your head. As all women who experienced it know that every pregnancy is different. Not everyone gets over puking their guts out after 3 months. Some women go into premature labor. And the list goes on. Someone is always going to complain that you are not pulling your weight, etc. That you are a malinger. Surprise, Surprise women get pregnant, men don't. Some men still can't get over the fact that women are allowed in the military at all.

Back in the dark ages, i.e., before some of you were born and in the VN era, women were discharged as soon as they became pregnant -- married or not. Some got pregnant just so they could get out of their contracts and some didn't care if they weren't married, but then this was the 60s. They did not go in the military to bilk the system. Some of them did not like the military way of life once they were in. Some never should have been recruited. There was no maternity leave. No ugly maternity uniforms. The difference today is that women are given an option. We did not have that option and that is a very important point that appears to be missed. When one talks about women reimbursing the government for expenses, they need to be reminded of the the cost to the military when the option to stay was unavailable. Once a woman gets pregnant in a male dominated organization, the same politics goes on except in the military you can't get fired and lose your benefits. Women are still having to prove they can "do it". The military had to adjust to women with children, women with spouses and equal spousal benefits -- there were court cases that forced it. It doesn't mean they had to like it, but they did have to accept it. There are no superwomen. Take it from one who tried it. There are no supermen either. So accept that fact and you make the best decisions with what you are presented with at a given time. There is no career worth the health and welfare of your child. As parents, we can only do the best we can with what we have. Everyone makes sacrifices inside and outside of the military. Civilian jobs can be demanding also. Can you quit -- yes. Can you get another job -- maybe --it depends on the economy at that point in time and a number of other factors.

My birth mother was in the military when she became pregnant with me in 1947. I was born in April 1948 in Seattle and have spent many years attempting to locate her. It is my belief that, particularly in the 1940s, the decision she made to put me up for adoption was a difficult one. Society in the 1940s would not have been kind to a single woman raising a child nor, would I expect, the military have accepted it. I can only imagine the pressure she would have endured to be single, in the military, AND pregnant.

had to unbutton one button every couple of weeks until the only thing holding the blouse on was your blue tie tab!) You also bought your uniforms out of your own money and were later reimbursed through finance. (I got my money back about the time the baby was born) We got only 4 weeks of maternity leave to "bond" with baby and then right back to work. My First Sergeant weighed me in my first day back. Then my executive officer hit me with dependent care plans which had to be finalized within 30 days time. I participated in a full "Charlie Scale" Exercise the next week.

I am a MALE 2nd class Petty Officer in the Navy(E-5). I hear an awful lot of people doing a lot of complaining about their own situations. I was pregnant...blah blah..I could handle it... blah blah.. I did my best.. blah blah. The simple fact is that when women get pregnant they are no longer being the asset that they could be. A pregnant woman becomes a special case in the work area. Always skipping out on some duty or another due to their condition. If you think that I am being harsh, come to my ship and work in a shop comprised of 6 Sailors. Then 3 get pregnant at or around the same time. Guess who's pulling their weight when it's time for the baby, and in one case SEVERAL MONTHS BEFORE. Yep, the male sailors. We don't get replacements for lost manpower due to maternity leave, we just have to suck it up. I was opposed to having women on the ship in the first place, and to tell the truth, I haven't met one Female Sailor worth her salt. It just seems to me if you want to join a service and have a family, wait until you are thirty and already have the family started then by all means...JOIN!

I was really disgusted with the female who got pregnant by her husband in her chain of command and was given an honorable discharge after two years. Such irresponsible, adulterous behavior as that, just further perpetuates stereotypes and makes us all look bad. Childless women and women who are not pregnant are ready to do what the military wants us to do. We all know that pregnant are exempt from some of the most strenuous and dangerous work, so of course we have a right to be mad when you are doing an easy job like checking meal cards.

Another thing, is the age excuse such as "I was under 21".So what! I am too. We were all briefed on STDs and so forth, there is no excuse to be getting pregnant with someone you just met (like some of the women in here). How foolish! Those of us who have CHOSEN not to get pregnant have every right to make your life miserable for the stress and the loss of morale that you put on others for opting out. I personally find it sick and horrendous that some of my fellow female soldiers were having unprotected sex in the first place when the military is well known to be a hotbed for STDs. And don't give me that tired excuse that you had the child to keep the man.

Sometimes the ignorance of people over whelms me and being an active duty female in the Marine Corps I have seen my share. I , myself, am not pregnant and I don't intend to be anytime soon but I do plan on getting married next year. The man who I am going to marry in also in the Marine Corps and wants children as soon as possible. It's a very hard decision. Planning pregnancy is one thing, but having to consider the fact that I'll hardly ever see my child is another. It's hard enough to be a parent, I can see for myself the ordeals that my fellow Marines go through, so I don't understand why would people make it even harder on these people who are serving their country. Not all females are getting out after four years, some writers have stated that you can just wait to have children. I'm not going to wait twenty years to have a baby so I can serve my country well. I know that my heart is in the right place, and I've got a good head on my soldiers so regardless I will serve the Marine Corps to the best of my ability. Not everyone has a civilian husband, and not everyone has the opportunity to be a house wife. If you did want us to be women, then why did you allow us into the military in the first place. If a man gets married and his wife gets pregnant, he is congratulated. If it's a female soldier people look at her as moving to fast, as being crazy or undisciplined. Yes, it is hard to be a woman, and it's hard to be a Marine, but it wouldn't be so hard if people didn't make it out to be. I personally am going to live my life so that I will never have regrets and I do plan to have a family one day. The Marine Corps has opened it's arms to me and allowed me to be one of the few and the proud. If I would die for anyone of my fellow Marines when it counted, would they stand by my side when there isn't any danger at all?

It amazes me some of the comments that are coming out of the mouths of women on this issue. I spent six years in the Air Force and had two children while in. My first came about the night before entering basic training, So I went through the rigors of basic training pregnant and did just fine. I knew I was pregnant towards the end but there was no way I was telling anyone. I didn't want to be sent home. I'd put to much into it. I'm just very glad they did pregnancy tests early on or I'd have been sent packing. I think being pregnant and having children in the military is more about personal character and strength than just being pregnant. There were girls who weren't pregnant that couldn't hack basic training and went home (and also quite a few men). I also think that people have a huge tendency to stereotype. I know I was one for a while. I couldn't believe the women who complained and whined throughout their pregnancy because my first one went off without a hitch. I thought it was wonderful to be pregnant. Then came number two! I puked my guts up the entire 9 months. My morning ritual was crawling out of bed and puking. Take a shower, go to work and puke some more. That is life. I missed less work than the guys who played football or softball. If there was a game scheduled during work, there could have been missiles flying over our heads and the game would go on. We were always undermanned during sporting events. Then there were the sports injuries. Guys would be out for weeks and sometimes months. I am not knocking the military, I do knock those of you out there who think women get pregnant to get out of work, and the pregnancy is incompatible with the military way of life. It is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. One of the most dedicated military members I've ever met had 8 children, all while she was in the Army. She knew her job better than any man, she busted her behind more than any man. It is a very difficult thing to balance military life and family life, but those who are dedicated enough do it and do it well. I don't think that you have to choose between one or the other. You just have to learn how to be tough and grow a thick skin when it comes to those who don't have it in them to do both and feel the need to belittle those who can.

I served in the Air Force for 2 short years as an AGE Mechanic. I became pregnant and made a choice to get out. I didn't make the choice to get out first. I loved my job and the friendships that I made while in the Air Force are priceless to me. I was on birth control. It just happened. A mistake. We are all human. I think alot of the women in the military are young, I was 19 at the time and single, scared, and don't know all of their options past birth control. Anyway, back to what I was saying. I stayed in up until my sixth month along. I was put on profile against my wishes. I believed that I could still do my job. A wrench doesn't weigh much :o) But I was placed in a clerk position and served my unit proudly and without whining or asking for special treatment. I was not married at the time. When I was about 5 1/2 months along, my first shirt called me into his office without my supervisor with me or knowing anything about this, not to mention it was off-duty hours, right after closing time (for lack of a better phrase) and asked me what my parents thought about my pregnancy, did I know who the father was, and that I should get out before I got kicked out. This was undoubtedly the most humiliating conversation that I had ever had with a higher up in my squadron. I had never even seen or spoken to the first shirt. I had kept my nose clean and had done my job well. Why did this man seem to have a problem with me?? Answer: Because he was from the old school mentality that women in the military should not become pregnant because it affects their jobs. OK, so it affected my job to what extent?? Only the extent that my OB and supervisor's let it. So faced with his ultimatum to get out or be kicked out, I took it as a real threat!!!! So, I got out. Yes, I regret that I let him bully me into getting out, yes, I wish that I was better informed of my rights...(i.e. the conversation after hours, without my supervisor present) Would it have turned out differently had he been forth right about the situation...YES!!! Could I have done my part with preventing pregnancy, I did. But you know what?? The final decision did lie in my hands and I did chose to get out. My reasoning was that I could not commit 110% to the Air Force as I strived to do, with a child to raise and worry about. Oh, as for the comment about the tax payers paying for our training...The last time I checked my LES there were taxes coming out of it...I look at it as, I paid my own training.

paid for and you are given 42 days of paid leave. How many civilian companies offer that? My concern is what happens after that 42 days of leave? We leave our sweet children with strangers. How can we expect them to learn everything we feel they need to know about life when we are working 12 and 24 hour shifts and deploying? How do we spend quality time with our children when we come home exhausted from these shifts? Where is the balance??

The Marine Corps used to offer pregnant Marines a discharge. Unfortunately, Marines who were unhappy with the Corps took advantage of this and began having children for the discharge. Offering this discharge

became expensive for the Corps. The Government had invested time, training, and money into these Marines, but were not getting the full use of them. Now the Marine Corps offers a discharge only in extreme circumstances such as a medical condition when the Marine will not be able fulfill their obligation to the Corps. It's unfortunate that Marines are no longer offered this discharge.

As a mother I want the option of staying home with my child. I love my son very much, as I know all who are reading this love your children too. I don't feel that leaving my child in daycare day after day is what is best

I honestly don't know how it is now for pregnant women in the military (I was honorably discharged in 1994), but I had both of my children while serving in the Army, and I was treated badly both times. Deemed "dead weight", I nearly lost my first child because I was so desperate to contribute to the unit's mission. I worked long hours and I was always tired. I developed complications in the second trimester and my water broke early, causing my child to be born 11 weeks premature. He spent about 3 months in ICU and I was sick with a fever for 12 days after I gave birth by emergency c-section. The unit didn't even send me so much as a card while I was convalescing. The second time I was pregnant I went full-term, but was constantly harassed for

contributed to the mission in an admin job, and received commendables on my area during a number of command inspections. I think women in the military are smart to have their children while serving because they are using their medical benefits. Women can contribute to missions while pregnant, and they do not stay pregnant. They have their children and return to normal duty in most cases. Some of the men who gave me a hard time were non-deployable with permanent conditions, so what were they doing? I can only hope that women who become pregnant are not treated the way I was. Women do not violate any laws by doing it, so the men need to leave them alone.

Posted: 27 Jun 00: "In response to the 14 Jun 00 post 'Pregnancy in the Military'"

issue with pregnant soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines. I have suffered only rare abuse for my profile when pregnant and always from supervisors who had never had a pregnant soldier before and expected the worst. After I demonstrated that I would not avoid the motor pool, deployments within the first trimester, or any one of a number of undesirable tasks/duties, I no longer had difficulty. The bad apples started the bunch to spoiling and now the perception needs to be purged. Most active duty women don't want to have their desire for family interfere with their careers any more than any male soldier does. Food for thought. BTW, I have to say that I find it really sad that a former WAC (see post 15 Jun 00), who by her very participation in our armed forces did so much to help females in the services, would dismiss this issue in the same way many men did the issue of women in the services when she joined. How soon we forget.

Posted: 15 Jun 00: "In response to the 14 Jun 00 post 'Pregnancy in the Military'"

I am responding to the Retired Male Army Colonel concerning pregnancy in the service. You are on the mark. I am a retired WAC. I almost fainted when the term "maternity uniforms" was used publicly. The military is no place for a woman with children. I believe that even the male soldiers who are single parents have to sign the guardianship of their children over in the event of an unaccompanied tour. I could be wrong. I am getting older faster than anticipated and do have senior moments, but... Anyway, you are right.

pregnancy is incompatible with service in a downsized, resource constrained military. In the military framework, pregnancy represents a disability that is a consequence of a discrete and usually consciously voluntary act. It is a disability that is virtually 100% preventable through pharmaceutical or surgical means or through abstinence. Our Nation needs women in the military consistent with their abilities; these women need to exercise the maturity and professional responsibility to take proactive measures to prevent pregnancies, thereby ensuring their continuous availability for the duty they are sworn to perform. Modern medicine has developed the tools and female service members should use them.

I am an Army Male Captain and I recently sat through a mentoring meeting with three LTC Battalion or former Battalion Commanders. During that meeting a fellow officer who happens to be a woman and four months pregnant ask them how she should handle reporting to her new unit eight months pregnant. They told her that she should explain to them she understands that she can't help the unit now as much as she wants but she'll work doubly hard to make up for the time she lost while on maternity leave. They also told her it is real

I am sorry but I could not disagree more. She should not have to make up for anything. The Army authorizes a 45 days of maternity leave. I am authorized 30 days leave a year, many soldiers build up to 60 days a year and take 30 at a time. Do they have to make up for anything, NO! Neither does the soldier who breaks his leg on a jump and gets sick leave for 45 days. Not to mention the second strike. I can only assume what that strike was, but since only she had that first strike and the 12 other males who asked questions did, well draw your on conclusion.

I have looked at the last 3 years worth of messages on this website concerning Pregnant females in the military. For some I give a kudos to for being able to "juggle both job and family" as it has been put, but for others I am shocked at how "caveman" everyone is thinking. Yes there are women who get pregnant to deliberately miss out on deployments because they don't want to go, and yes there are some women who are not into using birth control but that is a two way street, unless there have been some immaculate conceptions going on. But here's one of my gripes, I am a married Sailor whose husband is a civilian and we both work and take care of our 3 year old son when I am at home, but when I am out to sea, yes my husband does take care of him and gets alot of support from family and friends. He is able to work out early risings and late pickups. I am also currently in my second trimester of my 3rd pregnancy (I miscarried the last one) and to have a E-7 tell my senior female petty officer that she needed to get her females in check because of pregnancy, did he realize that the females who had gotten pregnant were married and we were in the middle of a Drydock period, NO. As usual it was all about the females who do this to get out of work. For my rate there is little I can't do, except touch and be with in contact of harsh chemicals, which means no PMS for me. Did my command let me stay within my rate? No. Their #1 concern was the chemicals. Did they move me to a place that I could still do my job? No I answered phones and played on the internet (yes that was my job description) 5 days a week. When it came time for me to get orders, I had to do all of it myself as the LPO kept saying "I'll get to it." but never did. I was one of few females who actually rolled to a shore duty billet at or before their 20th week of pregnancy. This last command that I was at had some understanding and realized that it was my choosing to become pregnant, but I did so at a time when we were in a non-deployable status. People still complained. At the first command I was

: at, we had a female miss passing the PRT by .10 of a second for the run with out knowing that she was almost 7 months pregnant, ( I know you are all saying that you had to be able to see the bulge, but she was wearing a size 6 in jeans and was still dropping weight.) I didn't know I was Pregnant until well into my second Trimester, but I was still going up on birds, doing maintenance and getting my quals for the flightdeck. I was moved along with several other girls to the tool room so they didn't have to deal with us "pregos". During that time we couldn't count oily rags or do certain things but we still stood duty, waxed decks and helped the Squadron decommission. Thanks to the great cooperation and guidance of a 2nd class supervisor, who made us do our job, out of the 6 girls that got Pregnant 5 of us finished our obligated service, the other one got out for back problems, and I am the only one who has stayed in for more than my obligated service. I went to school when my son was 3 months old and from that time (July '97) until recently when I was PCS'd back to shore duty for this pregnancy; he and I have seen each other less then a year of his 3 years of his life. Does he hate me for it? No. He doesn't like it when I leave but I make sure that he has plenty of photos of me and a couple of videos that I have made just for him, and I call him whenever I get a chance, but he still gets and receives all the the care and love that he needs while I am away. Do I think that women should get out of the military because they have kids, no, I would rather have a good Sailor/Soldier/Airman/Marine working with me than to see another Welfare statistic in the paper.

I have been on active duty for 16 years. My husband and I carefully planned two pregnancies three years apart to coincide with shore duties, deliberately passing up the more demanding/career enhancing assignments that I knew I could not do while pregnant. I worked until the day I delivered, returned to work during pregnancy leave as needed, took work home, etc. I was supported by my entire chain of command and both pregnancies were non-events for my commands. I worked a full day plus on my return and still managed to breastfeed both babies. It was hard, I didn't like leaving them with caregivers but we did our best and I did my job.

I am disturbed by the numbers of unplanned pregnancies that impact readiness and waste boot camp/recruiting dollars. In my current job I receive the pregnant Sailors from sea duty billets. After two years of checking in close to 100 of these Sailors I am most discouraged and my sympathy meter is pegged to plain aggravation. I've heard it all.

In most cases (but certainly not all) the pregnancies weren't planned but weren't prevented; they are E-5 and below; they are unmarried; they may or may not know who the father is; the father is usually older, more senior,

mom/dad/stepmom/grandma, etc. with their baby usually after having been in for less than two years. A small number press on as single Sailors, some send the baby to the previously mentioned relatives and go back to sea. You see some again pregnant a year later on sea duty and the cycle starts over. Some are good Sailors and hard workers who pull their weight on pregnancy shore duty--they are the minority. Mostly they are young, immature, sexually promiscuous, poorly educated, and from broken homes--the product of society

I am an E-5 in the military and have been enlisted for 9 years. I was attached to a ship until I discovered I was pregnant 1 week prior to float. I used birth control during the one time in 6 months I had sex and still I became pregnant. Abortion was not an option for me because of my belief that everyone should take responsibility for their actions and I would feel like I killed my offspring possibly giving up my only chance of having a child of my own. I am committed to the military and plan to continue my enlistment and serve my country. I do believe that I should be treated with the same respect as any other military member pregnant or not pregnant. I find some of the ideas posted absurd and neandrethal in basis. Any one who joined the military chose to serve and should be praised for the great sacrifices they make for their civilian brethren. Just because a female service member becomes pregnant does not mean she is no longer an asset to the armed forces. For a temporary time she may have restrictions placed on her but it is just that temporary. And any one of us can be injured and have restrictions placed on us for a temporary period of time. Keep this in mind the next time you choose to chastise a female military member because she is pregnant. She still deserves your respect even if you don't agree with her decision.

What am I trying to say? When a woman becomes pregnant, HER JOB SHOULD NOT CHANGE! Sure, at 25+ weeks certain medical limitations are imposed on her (for the sake of the child, and the sake of the expectant mother), but her employment should not change! Sure, no male can get pregnant, it's a fact. Women can. And they should not be treated any differently! I lose sailors (male and female) due to sports injuries. I lose sailors to accidents. I lose sailors to special details and TAD/TDY (short duration orders). I lose sailors due to illness and surgeries. AND YET THE MISSON/JOB STILL GETS DONE! Training continues, process improvements go on, and leave, liberty and time off continues! So, why should a pregnancy be viewed as any other than what it is: a temporary medical condition? Well, it shouldn't be, but it is because of item number 4 above: personal biases and stereotyping. Oh, by the way, in the U.S. Navy, this is not condoned behavior, and is viewed as incorrect or wrong thinking.

So, in closing, our leaders, (and no, not the elected ones) set policy. And this policy is not "male viewpoints only" when it is drawn up. Medical personnel, female leaders, male leaders, and job specific experts (to include safety and Occupational Health personnel) are consulted. The rest of us need to sit down, read the regulations, instructions and guidelines, and operate/employ our valuable assets (these female professionals) to the best of our AND their abilities! People are people, sailors are sailors, and two wrongs still do not make a right!

I am an active duty Marine Corporal with a 7 month deployment coming up shortly. There are about 15 women in my squadron and 3 of them have just found out that they're pregnant. They've all been placed in admin-type jobs, but are looked upon as though they got pregnant to get out of the float. Each of them say that they didn't mean to get pregnant. I like each of these women, but I myself have doubts to their motives...About 2 months ago, I myself found out that I was pregnant, even though I am on the pill. It was one of the scariest things that I think I've ever been through in my life. The same day, I told my boyfriend, and called the abortion clinic. The abortion cost $324 and I was back to work the next day. No one ever knew, and my life isn't messed up at all. Humans are humans, and I can understand if you enjoy sex. What I'm trying to say is, there is another way out. Accidents do happen, but I am still an asset to my squadron, and still an asset to my Corps.

Here we go again. Another immaculate conception. 'I found out I was pregnant', you act like you had no idea this could happen! Were you not using birth control?? As I stated before, tell the command that you are trying to start a family. If they still send you 'boating with the Navy' its a lick on them. Of course, if telling the command you are planning a pregnancy would exempt every female from their cruise rotation, then I am sure some would abuse the policy just to get out of their duty. Just like guys abuse and manipulate the policy to avoid deployment.

Why should they be supportive? You just weakened the effectiveness of the ship! Or did you expect; "OH, that's ok Sally Sue, that's great news! Joe, you need to start pulling a double shift till we get a replacement. Sir, we're gonna take a hit on the readiness report for losing a sailor. Mike, you're in charge of planning the baby shower. Dave, get a farewell party together ASAP, we've only got 4 hours till she leaves. By the way, any of you folks fulfilling your responsibility on this float got mail she could drop in an onshore box? Uh, you wouldn't mind doing that for us would you?"

'Sailor of the Quarter'? Looks like integrity was not a qualifier for that competition. Beat out the old CPOs that do their duty, huh? Now, that's something to brag about. The military is not for you. If you cannot see where you were wrong in the area of preventive planning, then consider the can factories. They hire year round and I suggest you ply your skills there. They won't deploy you.

Basing your continuing to be a member of the Navy is self-serving. Judge the decision to stay in on commitment to the country first, finances second. Yes, you can make it on an E-5s pay. But then the 2 cars or boat, motorcyle, off-post housing, computer, widescreen, stereo, eating out for lunch or dinner 5 days a week, etc, will have to be sold or wait until you have reached a skill level that will pay for those things. You have to pay

attention and support. To spend 8-12 hours a day working and 2 -3 with a kid says something to me that I don't want to hear! If women do choose to try and have both (which is fine, it's their choice) I hope to the dear Lord that they don't bitch about unfair treatment! A woman 9 mos. pregnant is not the same as a woman who's not pregnant. Can't do the same things. Ultimately, the military is about service - about the needs of this country, its security. I would be horrified if our military became just a giant nursery, with pink tanks, and infantrymen working daycare. So as everyone says here, be careful what you decide. Remember, there's no specific moment you have to have a baby, it can be any time up until you're about 50 (although I don't recommend that!). I don't want to see maternity BDUs sell like hotcakes myself, I don't think they're good camouflage anyway. And just remember, while we can go off and get pregnant before deployment so we don't have to go, and get excused from all kinds of unpleasant things, the guys don't have this option! If women want to "prove" themselves they should stop taking the easy way out and getting free goodies for being females.

Ann

The whole pregnancy experience could be much better for the member and for the command if the chain of command would try to be supportive. What is my relationship with the chain of command going to be like when I go back? If the chain of command had carried out their duty to me (brief me), and been a little more supportive and understanding, no one would have lost anything in this situation because I would have been willing (and even happy) to go back and resume my duties. But now I feel like an outsider thanks to the

Before I had told my chain of command I was pregnant, I had decided that I wanted to stay on the ship as long as I could and return as soon as I could, but once I was ostracized, that decision changed instantly. Why should I stay and continue working as hard as I could when I was going to be treated like a screw up when all I did was choose to have a family? Being treated so poorly took away all of my motivation in an instant.. literally. (I must say that shortly before I found out I was pregnant, I had been selected as Sailor of the Quarter... I "beat" some VERY senior First Class Petty Officers who had a lot more experience than I did).

wrong... by a Commander of all people. The CDR decided that he didn't want me to work for him since I was pregnant, so he sent me TAD to one of the subordinate units. I must admit I was hesitant since there were only 3 women in that particular unit, and two months prior, one of them had left that unit because of a sexual harassment case. My fears were that I would face the same treatment I had been facing for a month, those fears were quickly put to rest. Some of the men in the unit (there are 30 people total) have been absolutely wonderful. There have been "anti-women in the military" jerks, but for the most part, everyone has been supportive and understanding of my situation, and yes, there are special needs that pregnant women have. It is now August, I am roughly 6 weeks away from delivery and have been given the opportunity to serve as the Unit's Supply Officer.

Everything in my heart says to get out of the Navy (my PRD is March 00) and stay at home to take care of my baby, or at least hold a job that doesn't require me to leave my baby for a minimum of six weeks at a time... (those of you with babies know just how much a baby changes in six weeks), however, after much heated discussion and heartache, my husband and I decided that it would be better for me to stay in for a while. Today's economy requires two incomes, and since both of us are E5s, we would take a HUGE cut in pay if I

My single hope in posting this message is to educate those of you who seem so angry about a pregnant servicemember's situation. I do understand that I have a commitment to the Navy, but I have a much more important commitment to my son. Before you "spout off" in a response, maybe you should read this again and take note of all I have said here about how I hope to be able to continue giving my job all I can. If that isn't good enough, then maybe some of you are right and people with children (whether they are married or

not) shouldn't be in the military, but no one can tell me I don't belong here thanks to that wonderful document we all vowed to support and defend. And, one day when you have been in my shoes, you just might eat some of your own words and realize that just because you want to make the greatest contribution of all to the world, it doesn't mean you are a bad person, or that you are not worthy of serving your country... and it most DEFINITELY doesn't mean that you owe shipmates (or anyone else for that matter) an apology for your absence (whether it is due to maternity, paternity leave or simply because a child is sick).

being a liar, not to mention the article 15 rank reduction, extra duty and the fact that my fellow soldiers all turned their backs on me, and labeled a trouble maker and a bad soldier) 42 days, prior to my sons delivery I was sent back to the states, where I was met with automatic personal opinions of me and needless to say the command did everything in their power to get me out of the military. I never asked for the pregnancy, but once I became pregnant, abortion or adoption was not an option either, all I wanted was to be a good soldier and a good mother, I was never allowed to do either, even though I tried to the very best of my ability. The military in my opinion lost a damn good soldier, because of their barbaric ideas and opinions of women military personnel.

Passing judgment on anyone is unacceptable and not how we should approach this situation. Let's try to find a way for everyone to exchange information, ideas etc. Opinions are allowed, but coming down on a certain individual for their decisions is not the way to get your opinion across. Personally, I planned my pregnancy and chose a job that I could do while having a child. I planned it at the time that was most beneficial to the Coast Guard and myself. I have done my time and plan to RELAD in December. I was one of the lucky ones though. I have friends who are just as responsible as I am, who tried to make it work, but it didn't. They were planning on getting married first, they were planning on getting out, they were planning on not having the baby until next year. Plans change, cycles change (don't we know). Women unite! Let's make pregnancy something we aren't ashamed of!, married or unmarried. Thank you for your time.

You have no idea just how hot the issue of pregnancy in the military is. I am deeply involved in a pregnant servicemember fitness program. I have heard all the comments and reasons- from the horses' mouths- for their pregnancy. 'I need the extra pay; I get housing so I can get out of the barracks; I get a profile; I just joined to get education money and free birthing; I just wanted to have a baby, I need someone to love me unconditionally'. The operant word here is 'I'. There is seldom any consideration for the child or others on the periphery who are effected- to include coworkers and the command. Regardless of their individual motivations for that pregnancy, lets recognize some facts.

Unfortunately, most of my female servicemembers who are pregnant are unmarried and have little or no contact with the soon to be 'father'. What could we have done about this before it occurred? Instill better values because sex outside of marriage is wrong. Argue this all you want to, but ask the highest ranking female in any military branch or in the political arena, and she will agree. More importantly, ask your mom or the woman that raised you this question. That's right, no matter how we attempt to reason away or deny high moral standards, that is the way it is. Our civilized society is based on high standards; values, integrity, morals, and ethics.

Just as important, unprotected sex is 'stupid'-- yes, I used that word. STDs in the military, when you consider the training and counseling available, are inexcusable and rampant. But its okay to do it without protection one time, right? Take a good look at your partner, are you their first sexual partner? If you answered this question 'no', then use appropriate protection. Enough of that.

I love to read the postings here. 'A blessing from God', a 'gift'. Yes they are. But it is entirely up to you when you receive that blessing or gift. These serious decisions should be planned when you are in the military. That's right, planned! Civilians should have to plan, too. When they don't though, does it affect military readiness? As 'greensuiters' when you swore to God to protect and defend, you accepted all the responsibilities that go along with maintaining readiness that makes you 'fit to fight'. Those responsibilities include planning pregnancies. How about telling the command that you are planning a pregnancy? 'Oh my god! They know that we do it!!'

HELLO!? They'll know that when you show up in maternity clothes. For the ensign that showed up pregnant for the float, well, you knew you were going 'sailing' more than 10 weeks prior to deployment, correct? Looks to me that birth control was the answer. Remember the old Ranger adage; 'Fail to plan-- plan to fail'. Approaching the old man/lady with the nice to know info you were planning a pregnancy might have precluded a deployment. Perhaps civilian life would be a better venue for you. Corporate America loves to hire former military officers who can 'hit the deck running'.

For my fellow servicemembers who plan their pregnancies and keep the command informed of these changes in their personal lives, I can't think of anyone I'd rather serve with or for. These are people who plan, seldom act on impulse or use poor judgement. Sounds like the kind of folks I want commanding me in combat.

Like I said at the start, you know why you are pregnant-- you can lie to everyone, except yourself........

I was really shocked by some of the responses from people today!!! There is nothing wrong with women being pregnant in the military. When I became pregnant upon arriving to my first duty station I was looked down upon. I was an E-3 just learning the ropes when I found out, but luckily I was on shore duty. I came to my command a single sailor with a child on the way and I did everything to be involved. If my command told me I couldn't do something I was there; from command inspections to standing for retirement ceremonies. I was going to make sure that there was no one that told me I couldn't do things for myself, and I sure didn't want to be looked down upon for being pregnant. Needless to say I have had my daughter and she is doing great. She is in daycare when I go to work and she is with me when I am off. I take very good care of her and still get my job done to the best of my ability. I think the biggest problem that people have with pregnant women is that most are single and pregnant with the father off at some other command. Now I don't know about the rest of you out there but when I got pregnant I chose to deal with my responsibilities, I can't say the same for the father. Now I am out there everyday busting my butt to survive, just like every other person...give us a chance we are human like everyone else.

I have scrolled thru a few of the posts here, and I am fascinated by the variety of responses. I applaud the women who have juggled both a military career and a family. However, I feel that the two simply aren't compatible. I will detail my experience a little and then talk about why I feel that pregnancy and military service don't work. I am an Army brat. My dad served 35 years in the ranks, everywhere from Korea during the war, 3 years in Nam, Europe and many posts in CONUS. My mom had a full time job raising me and my 4 older sisters. I could never imagine how she would have juggled any sort of military career. Wouldn't even want to try. I myself have served since 1981. My wife & I got married just after I finished OSUT, and I was stationed in Berlin. After that came Grenada, OCS, Panama, Ranger school, Iraq, SF school and a wide variety of TDY's and other posts. During all of this time, my wife spent most of her time raising our 3 kids (8, 5 & 3) and working when she could as a nurse. My wife died 2 months ago, and I have had to make a very hard decision. I could either 1) stay in my unit, which is going to Kosovo and try to find someone to care for my children. This would be for who knows how long just 2 months after their mom died or 2) Transfer to a non-deployment unit and give my career a shot in the foot. I decided the later. My family is more important than my career. I'm lucky enough to get a transfer to an SF recruiting station. This will severely reduce my chances for promotion. I will be lucky if I retire as an LTC, whereas had I stayed in deployable units, I could have made COL in the next 10 years. I made this decision because it's what's best for my family. I can't juggle both (at least in SF). The single mothers who are trying to juggle both a child(ren) and a military career are short-changing both. I believe that the dual-service couples that have children are doing the same thing. It's a proven fact that children of single parents do worse in school, are less apt to go to college, more apt to get into trouble with the law and will on average earn less than their peers from 2 parent households. My parents were divorced twice from each other (yes married, divorced, married each other again, divorced). I know how hard it is to grow up without both parents around.

I'm asking the servicewomen out there to please think about what you're doing before you get pregnant. Pregnancy is 100% preventable. I'm not going to go into the morality of non-marital sex and all that, but it's the truth. Unless you're raped, you decide to possibly bring a child into the world. I swore the oath 10 years before my 1st child was born. But I realized that when I became a father, that I assumed a higher responsibility, and now that responsibility has forced me to make a choice. Please remember your responsibility to yourself, the service and the child you may have.

Posted: 14 Jul 99: "In response to the 9 Jul 99 post 'It's Time To Live in the Present'"

The woman who wrote this seems to support the reason that pregnancy is a problem in the military more than support her case that it is not and should not be. The use of purely emotional and lack of facts seems to be the only way she can get her point across.

You stated the you were sent to a tactical unit already pregnant and then sent to a non-deploying unit because of the pregnancy. This seems to support the problem of pregnancy in the military. Now this unit is short handed 1 soldier. You act if it was some biased against you by your 1st SGT, but in reality he probably needed a soldier, but knew that your duties and deployments would be limited for the next year. He or she made a rational choice to send you away and find another replacement. It was for the good of the unit and you that this action was taken. Of course the unit is still short handed thanks to this even being an issue.

You stated that a supervisor tried to make you use chemicals that made you sick and made you fear for the safety of your fetus. Again you support the problem of pregnancy in the military. Would a male soldier or even a non-pregnant female soldier had the same redress as you when he or she disagreed? You may have been perfectly right in using this because of safety issues, but if pregnancy is not a problem, then why was this a problem. I am sure some other soldier picked up your slack, they will only have to do it for 9 months. Unless you become pregnant again, then another 9 months, but as long as your career and motherhood are allowed to progress I guess this is fine in the new feminine military.

You end by telling soldiers who have never had a baby to shut up and sit down. That is a sound and logical argument. I guess since women have never been in the infantry they should just "sit down and shut up," although I may agree with this last statement, I doubt you do. Whether or not a man has been through pregnancy or not has nothing to do with it's effect on unit morale and readiness. They have seen the effect, and that should suffice. If you have sound arguments I will gladly read them and though I may disagree, I will respect them. But, if you are going to resort to telling me or any other to shut up, I will continue to believe you live in ignorance.

My first suggestion you're not being singled out just because you're a woman. We all know men whose wives, girlfriends, etc, have delivered during a deployment and we've said, damn the luck. However, when they're planning a family, and they know their deployment schedule, and they get pregnant with a due date during that deployment, we say, what were they thinking? Career military men who intentionally have children while they're "gone" are perceived as either insensitive and selfish, or that they'll be so wrapped up in the pregnancy they can't work and they don't care. The criticisms leveled at you are the flip side of this. My second suggestion don't expect the men around you to be happy for you. You got pregnant on a float. Presuming you weren't pregnant before you learned of your float, then you knew about the float or were on the float and on shore leave when you got pregnant. Pregnancy is preventable.

Getting pregnant when you know you cannot complete your tour if pregnant is irresponsible. If you became accidentally pregnant, your crew is paying for your lack of planning (your replacement has to get into the groove, and if you make it back to the boat before the float ends, will you go back to your old job and subject your crew to another transition, or is your crew one body short right now?). If you became intentionally pregnant, you're propagating the stereotype of women as mothers before sailors, or at the very least, of women as flighty or self-absorbed or thoughtless. I suggest that the argument "I was using birth control but it didn't work" falls into the category of not planning. Between shots or implants or pills and condoms and foams, it's not as intimate, but that's the point. Expecting the men on your crew to applaud your pregnancy and impending departure from the float is not realistic. In their eyes, you're getting to go home while they're sticking around to do your job, all because you had sex. I applaud your honesty with your commanders, and I think your fight to return to the float shows that you are serious about your job. I don't think it's reasonable to demand that you be treated like a man whose wife is pregnant, because her pregnancy does not pull him involuntarily from duty. I also don't think you need the approval of your crew to plan your life. However, if you want their respect and their loyalty fifteen years from now, their approval or tacit endorsement would have been handy.

While reading some of the comments sent in to this site, I have slowly become appalled by some of the reactions of the older men and women (more women than men) who served in the military. I have talked to women who served in the military in the 60's and 70's and they all told me the same thing: they were glad things had changed. A woman should not have to choose between being a mother and her career. No one makes a man choose when a woman becomes pregnant. It is automatically assumed that his life will go on without any hurdles while the woman is forced to make life affecting choices. And for all of you who say that you have the option now to use birth control or abort: birth control is not 100 percent and why is abortion even an issue. Yes birth control is legal, it should not have to become a priority.

When I first arrived at my current Army post I was sent to a tactical unit. I was only 6 weeks into my pregnancy and was immediately treated as if I was trying to get out of my duties. I was newly reclassed and my past job was exactly what they demanded I did: personnel. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my job as personnel, but I reclassed for a purpose. But my first sergeant, on the week of my arrival, makes it clear that he will not have any pregnant soldiers and trades me off to a non-deployable unit across post. With this unit I do my job but some made my life hell. The many civilians and about 75 percent of my co-workers supported me because I was doing everything possible to prepare my life for my child. I did my work, I went to the pregnancy PT program for the post (which by the way did not help ward off the extra weight for many of the pregnant soldiers), and did whatever was asked of me to do. I was even promoted in my 7th month of pregnancy. But there were the male soldiers who made it very clear that I was using my pregnancy to my benefit of getting out of detail. After this male soldier began to yell at me for not using a cleaning product which had made me sick in the past, I began to stand up for my self. Although this soldier outranked me, I told him what to do with his command because it was not in the best interest of the health of my child and the health of myself. After conferring this with the NCOIC, I was proved correct. The male soldier was reprimanded and we were placed on separate shifts. He was not the only one to make comments aloud. When the soldiers did, I reported it. Plain and Simple. I did not have a problem going to my chain of command and when they didn't respond, I had my battalion commander deal with it.

What I have not told you is that I am a single mother. Now you can come to any conclusion that you want but I am a damn good mother. My son is in daycare when I am in work and when I am not working he is with me. How dare men even comment on what a woman should do in the situation of getting out or staying in when pregnant. If it were men having these babies they would get more than 6 weeks convalescent leave and six months to recoup. You would probably request an entire year of no duty.

Finally, one retired warrant officer that I now have the pleasure to work with told me that prior to him passing a gall stone he thought that women complained too much about the aches of pains of carrying a child and labor. Once he passed the stone he said he had a new found appreciation for women. For you men, carrying a child for 9 months can mean involuntary high blood pressure, agonizing headaches, as well as the regular runs to the bathroom because you smell something that turned your stomach upside down. So to all you men I can only say: HAVE A BABY OR ELSE SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP! And to all the women, single and married, who remained in the military: Good Luck! To all the women who chose to get out: Good Luck! Either way it's not easy!

Posted 8 Jul 99: In response to the 22 Jun 99 post responding to the 16 Jun 99 post:

I'll be the first to admit that the wording of my ideas was less than ideal, but I'll try and fix that now. Points I would like to address are career women and the jobs they choose.

I never said women should either stay at home with there children or have no children. I believe women can and do perform admirably in 95% of the jobs in the United States. I am not married or have children, but my mother worked and my sister, who has a child, works also. Neither of those women ever had to leave their child for great lengths of time as is common in the military. I am sure you would agree with me on this. I can think of no other job that requires such extended stays away from children. Yes, it would be great if neither parent had to do this, but as a former child myself I would rather the mother be the one to stay home. Thanks to biological and sociological influences the mother is the normally the more nurturing of the two.

As far as you doing your job great, I am sure you do a wonderful job, but you neglect to state the job that you do. When women were more limited in their choices in the military there were not many problems with pregnancy effecting there jobs physically, but now with more and more physically demanding jobs open there are more problems. I doubt a pregnant women could perform the job of an Infantryman, my former job, while pregnant. I doubt a women could perform my present job in intelligence while pregnant, because it requires me to do the same and more than an infantryman. My true opinion is women should not do these or many other jobs that they are allowed to pregnant or not.

I know some of my opinions, or all, make me come of as a chauvinist, but I truly believe that I am not, merely a realist. Thank you for your response, it was well written, I simply do not agree with you.

I would like to respond to you saying that as a woman I need to figure out what I want to do with my life. Why can't I have children and serve in the military while doing both jobs well? I take offense to the fact that you say woman either need to stay home or they need to stay at work. Doesn't that go for men too. Because I am a woman I have to choose but why doesn't a man have to choose? My husband is also active duty. Shouldn't he have to choose? He helped make these children but to do a good job of raising them you don't think he has to be here too. Just by virtue of being a man he doesn't need to help. My children need their mother and their father. They suffer just as much when daddy has to leave as they do when mommy does. If you have noticed "traditional" families no longer exist. Most families need two incomes to survive in this day and age. Your statements make me wonder if you have children and if you do, what kind of relationship you have with them. My son goes to daycare everyday and has since I came back to work. We are no different than the millions of other parents who send their children to daycare everyday.

Why should my pregnancy affect unit morale and readiness? In every place I have ever been when the unit deployed someone had to stay behind. If a pregnant woman can do her job then what's wrong with her being here? I have had two pregnancies since joining the military and during both of these times my ratings have been excellent. My supervisor was able to depend on me to get my job done and for the most part I was able to do it. I think understanding is what factors in. In any job there is give and take and that goes with the military. I am a very dedicated airman (soon to be sergeant) and I made that stripe while I was pregnant with my second child. My son is very well adjusted and he knows I love him. Even when I have to leave him he knows that mommy is out defending the country. As a matter of fact he is proud of that. When asked what his mommy does he doesn't say that she is in the military but that she protects everyone in the country. What can I ask for better than that?

You are correct in saying that the military is not a natural job but it is a job that as a woman that I can do very well. Me being pregnant is not going to bring it down. In the government every other branch except for the Armed Forces gives men maternity leave too.

I am sorry but I don't think that you are being rational at all. To say that someone can't do something based on what gender they are doesn't say much about you. I think your ideas would be a lot different if we were talking about your sister or mother or daughter. You would want your daughter to be able to do whatever she wanted to do. I'm someone's daughter and my daddy wanted me to do whatever my heart desired and I've done it. And if I can say so myself, I have done it quite well.

I find it difficult to believe that the pregnancy issue is still being debated. I joined in 1973 we had to abort or get out. I had my first in 1977, we did not have maternity uniforms at the time. I was 6 months along when I arrived at my new base. I did my job and had many supported people.In 1980 I had my second,when I asked my OB-GYN what recommendation he would advise for me concerning my work he informed me that my command would have to make that judgement. I asked him that if my job consisted of jumping out of airplanes that he couldn't advise me against doing it!! SO basically it was left to to judgement an E-6 cook to know what was safe for me to do as a eight mths pregnant sailor. After injuring myself lifting 100lb sacks of potatoes the emergency doctor asked why I was lifting this weight. The next week the command put out regulations for pregnant sailors. It took the services along time to come up with common sense approach to pregnancy. I would hope that after 20 years since acceptance of pregnancy that we could get on with other areas.

I will be the first to admit that I am biased when it comes to women in the military. With that said I have come to accept it as a truth I can do nothing about and tried to be professional in all my dealings with females in the military. There is one big problem though, ladies, you need to figure out what you want out of life. You can either be a career military person or a mother, the two just do not mix. The traditional role of the mother (sorry I used the word traditional) does not allow for a women to be deploying all over the world while the child sits in day care or with some other long term provider. The child will suffer as a result of this. On the flip side if you do your job as a mother your career will suffer.

There are plenty of problems with pregnancy affecting unit readiness and morale. Some seem to think it is up to the military to accommodate you while you go through a natural part of life. It is true that this is natural, but the military is not a "natural" career. This is not a typical job where though maternal leave would be an inconvenience it would not jeopardize a life or a mission.

Rational women and men know I am speaking the truth and I wish the rest would quit using the military as a gender war.

This is the first time I have entered this site, but I have a few things to say. I cannot believe some of the things I have read. We as women, should have the right to choose what is best for us and our families. Why are we relying on others, not to do our work, but to make our decisions for us. I am an active duty female in the Air Force. I have seen and been through some really rough situations. I had a miscarriage when I was three months pregnant. I have been harassed and degraded because I chose to become pregnant. All of the upper management were males, and had NO sympathy for any female that became pregnant. I went to work at four in the morning, and got off at two in the afternoon. I stood on my feet all day. I never complained, and I was still harassed. I lost my baby, and sometimes, I feel it was due to the over whelming sense of stress and pressure I received from my peers. I have seen many other preg, women told to climb ladders, and lift boxes that weighed more than 40lbs. When I tried to help, I was reprimanded for doing someone else's job. I thought team work was supposed to be the strong hold of the military. I cannot agree that pregnant women should not be allowed the option to do what is best for their family. I am going to fertility clinic to get pregnant, and I feel good knowing that if need be, I have the option to stay or go.

I too am a veteran of the 60's and met my husband of 32 years now while in the military, but being as naive an young as "GIRLS" where back then. I to got pregnant and I had a choice of aborting or leaving the service. Evan though I loved being in the military and my job in the Army Medical Corp I decided to leave since I don't believe in abortion unless the mother or child's life is at stake. I really had no choice. I am glad now that I made that choice because shortly after that I got female cancer and had the have everything removed and was never able to have any more. I am very proud of my 29 year old daughter and would not trade any of my experiences for her or my Husband. We are as much in love today as the day we met and I thank the military and the good LORD every day for them both. Thank you for giving me this forum to voice my opinion. Good Bless you and your work.

I am a pregnant soldier in the Army. I'm over half-way through my pregnancy and have recently decided to get out. This conclusion took me MONTHS to reach. Both myself and my husband are vehicle mechanics. When I learned of my pregnancy, I was immediately pulled off the floor of the motor pool and placed in a desk job. Clerk is a great position for a lot of people, but not me. I'm a mechanic. According to Army regulations, I can technically do my job with minimal risks. My unit doesn't agree with the Army and won't let me continue with my normal duties. I didn't ask to be given a supposedly easier job (it isn't...God bless 92A's). I've heard plenty of comments from fellow mechanics, people that I considered friends, including that I was useless. I don't deserve to be called useless. I'm a good soldier. However, I'm going to be an even better mother. Almost simultaneous to finding out I was pregnant, I found out that I was going to Bosnia. This of course didn't happen, and I did hear the usual behind-the-back comments about getting pregnant to get out of it. Why would I choose to bring a life into this world just so I can avoid extra pay, travel, and possible promotion and awards? This pregnancy was not planned and precautions were taken to avoid it, but God wanted me to have a baby. My husband is currently in Bosnia himself and won't be back for the birth or the first month. I understand that options are open to me, and I truly appreciate the sacrifices that the women who were before me made to open doors. The optimal choice for my situation however, is to leave the military. Kudos to the women who choose to stay in and be mothers too. I personally am not prepared to sacrifice my family just to move up the military ladder.

I took some time to read this forum and, sure enough, there are all sorts of opinions on pregnant women in the military! Now here's my opinion, and my story...

I am an Ensign in the Navy assigned to a combat vessel. In the relatively short amount of time that I have been onboard I have earned my command recognition and praise from a number of sources. It is a well known fact that I "hit the deckplates running" when I arrived. I love my job. I love my division. And sometime in the next 10 weeks, I will leave the ship due to a pregnancy.

I found out I was pregnant 5 weeks ago. As is my duty, I immediately told my chain of command. As is typical, our Chief Corpsman told most of the ship in about 30 minutes. I endured a lecture from my Department Head about how I was letting the ship down, how I would be ridiculed, how I'd be banished from the ship, how my work environment and the attitude of the crew would change, and how I was placing a strain on the other division officers in my department. Then I suffered another lecture from the Command Master Chief, a former ally of mine, who told me he felt I was "serving my country without honor" for becoming pregnant during sea duty. He also informed me that I was a poor role model for female sailors, and that he was disappointed in me. Then, I spoke to the Executive Officer. HE gave me a half-hearted congratulations. I informed him that I wanted to stay onboard until the 20 week mark, and he agreed to allow it. I told him I wanted to COME BACK to my ship after my child was born, in order to serve out my tour and make the next deployment. Again he agreed and told me he would back everything I wanted to the Captain, and told me he would get back to me with information in the next week or so.

In many ways my Department Head was right. There are those crew members who think I did it to get off the ship. Fortunately, they are heavily outweighed by those who are genuinely happy for me. However, I cannot say the same for the members of my Wardroom, who have isolated me and given me the cold shoulder (with the exception of three individuals). My work environment is tense- my every move is watched. My work load has been increased "because I'm leaving soon and I'll have it easy until the baby's born." And weeks later, I still don't have any word where I'm going or when...

For the last five weeks I have continued to perform all my duties. I've stood all my watches, and I've joined in my command's physical training sessions each time they are held. I'm happily married to another officer (Air Force). I have a career. My routine hasn't changed a bit. And with all due respect to my CMC- I refuse to believe I'm a bad role model.

Perhaps women should be required to take shots or get Norplant to ensure they don't get pregnant at sea. Maybe women shouldn't go to sea. There's no right answer- they all have their problems. But as long as there are women in the military, there will be pregnant women in the military- unless they start requiring women to surgically remove their ovaries when they sign up! Whether to stay in or get out is a decision that seems easy to me. The military doesn't REQUIRE me to develop correctly. It doesn't need my love and affection. It can, in fact, survive quite well without me. A newborn child cannot. Will *I* get out? It's something my husband and I are still discussing.

The major injustice is the fact that many women who become pregnant on active duty are made to feel as if we have done something WRONG, as if we have committed a crime of some sort. The birth of a child is a miracle, a blessing from God, and a gift. It a reason to be overjoyed- not stressed, banished, and excommunicated. But what it really comes down to, for me, is this- no man in the history of the Navy has ever asked my permission to start his family. I'll be damned if I ask permission to start mine!

Most of these memo's overlook the third option. Many women were pressured to have an abortion. Getting out was "an excuse" and staying in was not an option. The early seventies saw many changes for women, but not before I chose to abort the result of an assault rather than be homeless. When I was hospitalized in an OB ward with nursing mothers, I almost went crazy. I did not know squat about life when I came in, but as I retired I noticed that things are different in a lot of ways. Unfortunately, not different enough. When the rules changed and my husband and I started our family, I was harassed about having to wear civilian clothes and almost charged with failure to repair, because they called the OB Clinic and some nurse said I left hours ago. She did not know I had gone to Labor and Delivery under emergency circumstances. I had preeclampsia and through up for nine months because of the mean spirited co-workers and a woman-hating superior. I refused my doctors offer to put me on quarters for the rest of the pregnancy. I told him I could handle it. I thought I owed it to other women to stick it out and prove them wrong. It could have cost me my life and the life of my baby, but I was so prideful, I refused to submit. Pregnant women have been treated very badly by the military. Today they have uniforms, 4 wks leave and good medical care. Be thankful for those of us who fought the good fight. The women in service today should talk to some of us old fogies about serving back in the WAF, WAVE, and WAC days! Women were treated like third class citizens with none of the housing privileges and less respect in many ways. The only good thing about those days was the all women dorms. When I moved out of one of the last AF WAF Squadron dorms, I cried my eyes out. The thought of living down the hall from all those men terrified me. Thank God my wedding date was a few months off or I could not have stood it. Co-ed living is not all it's cracked up to be.

I am looking for any information regarding the ethical and legal implications of decisions that must be made by military leaders when confronted with pregnant service members in an operational(deployed) command. E-mail: mward@snet.net

I feel like an old duffer after reading the many post, but thought I'd have something to offer. When I was in the Air Force in 1963, I didn't have an option to stay or go. I had to go. They didn't offer an alternative. I always regretted having to leave. I got married, and being naive as far as sex education, became pregnant. I had to leave as soon as I started showing as they say. But until I showed, I did my job, and back then, they didn't want us there to begin with, so they wouldn't lift a finger to make your job easier, and to be honest I wouldn't want them to. When I hear about sexual harassment today, I think back to what it was like then, I feel like a poster child for sexual harassment. I complained once to my superior, in an informal chat, and the next week I was on my way to the publications dept. which was a flat out demotion. So you learned quick to keep your mouth shut. Just had to vent, and feel better for doing it.

I can see where all of you are coming from. When my sister had her baby, I was so excited, I went to her house everyday and helped her take care of it. I decided to join the Army a few months ago and I've been through the issue of whether or not I should bare children. Don't take me wrong, I love children and they are wonderful, but they shouldn't be used as an excuse for not doing your job. Joining any branch of the armed forces comes with a responsibility. That responsibility is getting your job done and doing it well. That is why if you want to join the military, you need to take in mind that children are a distraction. If you wish to have children, go ahead, but remember that you can't perform to your fullest if you fear leaving your child behind. There are many professions out there that allow women bearing children, but the military shouldn't be one of them. You entered the job knowing you are discouraged to bear children and you should live up to it. It's a sacrifice all of us must make in life. It's not a fair one, but if you want to serve your country, it's one sacrifice you must make. When you get something, you take everything that comes with it.

I am an active duty pregnant soldier. I have been in the Army for 4 years and have earned my sergeant. I am married to an active duty Army soldier. This is my second pregnancy. My first one ended in miscarriage in my first month. I am now in my seventh month. I AM IN A NON-DEPLOYABLE UNIT, SO NO ONE IS PULLING MY WEIGHT. NOR DID I GET PREGNANT JUST TO GET OUT. IF I CAN'T HANDLE THE MILITARY, I AM CERTAINLY UNFIT TO RAISE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. I served 2 years in Germany, my first duty stationed. I have been here at Ft XXX for 1 year and 8 months, which is truly in the middle of no where according to me. I haven't decided to stay or leave the military. That is why I starting reading everyone's posting. I thought my decision would be easier after reading everyone's experiences and opinions. WAS I WRONG! I would like to at least finish the 2 years left on my contract for the simple reason that I like to finish whatever I start. Despite all the bad things, the military has it good. What I do know for certain is that I will NOT sacrifice my child's happiness to satisfy a system ran by people who could care less about me.

In my 17 years of living before the military, God and family were the most important aspects of my life. For my first year of military, I allowed myself to believe in the military way of thinking-the military is my God, my family and everything else. I thought it was apart of adapting, but my heart was never truly into it. It didn't take me long (following my heart and great leadership) to revert back to my old way of thinking. God, family, and then the military. I had no ideal of what I was getting into when I signed my contract. I still had months to go before I even finished high school. My recruited told me it was a great job with great benefits and pay while being able to go to college at the same time. While I can't call my recruiter a total liar, I can say he left out quite a bit of the truth or shall I say REALITY--LIKE MISSION FIRST, NO MATTER WHAT. If I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now. It would be a VERY HARD decision. I have meet many people that I would have never met and done many things that I would never had the guts to do. BUT....I have endured much crap and have seen my friends and peers endure treatment that no dog would tolerate. All from a few people abusing the system or "leaders" who refuse to put their soldiers' needs first. I signed my contract thinking I was getting a whole lot more that what I was. I blame no one but me. I should have asked more questions, but I was naive. After I realized I was giving up my personal freedom to protect the rest of the world, I continued on full force anyway. After all, I said that I would. I can't believe I'm about to quote a Rambo movie, but it was basically what I was thinking when I raised my right hand. "I only want my country to love me as much as I love it "(or something like, I can't remember the exact quote or which Rambo it was). Seeing that I am asking too much, I most certain will not sacrifice my child's well been. If being a parent and a soldier doesn't work for me I will most certainly drop being a soldier in a heartbeat. After all, I can't just decide not to be a mother. FURTHERMORE, AN UNHAPPY SOLDIER OR SOMEONE WHO REFUSES TO BE A GREAT SOLDIER BRINGS HELL ON EVERYONE ELSE.

Currently I am in the Navy I.R.R., I have been here for many years. When I was on active duty and married to a military man I became pregnant. I was stationed in Hawaii, I performed all of my required duties while pregnant, after I delivered my son I went back to work. I believe I was one of very few females not to be harassed while pregnant. About six months after returning to duty I became pregnant again, at this time I was a single mom, still lucky (no harassment form co-workers: fellow sailors) I chose to be "get-out". I received an Honorable Discharge with an RE-4 Code. Meaning I can not re-enlist until unless I remarry or sigh custody of my two children to someone. I was lucky that I was able to get into the reserve program after my second child was born and from there I chose to re-enlist in the I.R.R. with a bonus for enlisting. Now I muster once a year (not in uniform) and I can raise my kids, go to school, work at job or what ever I chose to do and still claim military status. If I had a chance to do my military life choices over I would chose to stay in and raise my kids until I retire.

I am an active duty female with children. While I agree that a unit's readiness is affected by the non-deployable status of pregnant females, I strongly disagree with the opinion some seem to have that all/most pregnant soldiers are malingering and routinely get pregnant in order to avoid field deployments. The decision to have a child carries with it the assumption of a lifetime of responsibility. If our younger, immature, soldiers ARE using pregnancy to avoid the "tough" parts of Army life, then we need better mentoring and instruction for ALL young soldiers - including men; those women didn't have immaculate conceptions!

There are women, and I count myself among them, who are dedicated and continue to perform their jobs during pregnancy. I chose to deploy to the field in the early stages of my pregnancy, in accordance with my profile, because I could not allow my soldiers to deploy while I remained comfortably in the rear. If I had "whined" enough, I'm sure that my physician would have issued a new profile with "no field deployment" on it! Adherence to the Army values of loyalty, duty and selfless service IS possible (and REQUIRED!) during pregnancy. Professional soldiers will exhibit that professionalism regardless of their reproductive state, and the Army has no use for those who don't.

I'm a 32 year old SSgt in the Air Force and am currently pregnant with my second child. During my first pregnancy, I was assigned to a Special Ops Group with a high ops tempo (what SOG doesn't have one?). While it's true I couldn't deploy while pregnant, I still busted my pregnant butt covering jobs left empty by my deployed co-workers. I was never treated differently and in fact, told numerous times to go home because I was working too hard. When my son was four months old, I deployed and didn't stop until I left three years later. I am still going TDY (granted only for schools now) and plan to go to the desert as soon as I can. No, I'm not a single parent. My husband is military and deployed as much as I did during our time with the SOG. What is our family life like? Well, between the two of us we've equally shared child raising duties more than any traditional families I know. We're not just a mother and father, we're mommy and daddy. I feel we're all closer to each other because of the uncertainty of the TDYs (precious time at home was spent devoted to our son and our marriage). Our son is going on three and all maternal pride aside (well, maybe not all), is one hell of a fantastic kid! It's not easy and it's not for everyone but it's working for us. My opinion on women who get pregnant to get out? That's a strange and twisted reason to bring a life into this world, ladies, and it's something you have to live with for 18+ years not to mention the picture you paint for the rest of us. My opinion on those who feel ALL pregnant females don't hold up their end of the contract? Maybe some don't, but some of us are military down to the umbilical cords and nursing pads...don't judge us all based on bad experiences.

Congratulations on your apparently happy marriage. It is my firm belief that everyone deserves at least one happy relationship in their life, and you seem to have found yours. That's terrific. What's not so good, however, is the distinct feeling I get that you think the Navy owes you something. You are the one who, for your own personal reasons, chose to renege on a contract. Please don't think I'm second-guessing your choices; I'm not. It's your life and your choices. Just as you made the choice to have children now, and to relocate to Sweden. The Navy is under no obligation to accommodate those choices.

Look, I don't want to sound mean or cruel, but you're the one who is changing the rules in the middle of the game here. You requested (and got) a PrevMed residency. Than means the Navy was expecting you to occupy that billet for the specified length of time to complete the residency, and then they expected you to fill a billet in that field. You changed your mind. That's okay, it's your life, but don't expect the Navy to come to a screeching halt because you want to get off the bus.

Let's get real here. You don't HAVE to have a child now, you CHOOSE to have a child now. I understand your mother's menopausal history indicates you'd better do it soon, but life has a tendency to throw little curve balls when you least expect it. Your curve ball came after you accepted the residency program and happened to run into the man of your dreams. Believe me, there are men and women all over the military who wait to negotiate on orders, only to meet someone terrific a week after accepting orders to the other side of the world. Life works like that; orders happen.

I realize I'm making assumptions here, and I may be wrong, but you joined the Navy a few years later than most people do. Even our physicians generally come in right our of med school- surely you've heard some of your peers getting called Doogie Howser by the old corpsmen. I'm sure you have perfectly sound reasons for your choices, and I'm not in any position to question them. But you made an agreement with the Navy, and if you choose to renege on that agreement, they powers that be aren't going to be very happy about it. Residencies, orders, and assignments aren't a simple stroke of the pen. You've got to understand that those assignments tie up about three years of time, and if you modify the assignment, a whole bunch of dominoes down the line get knocked over. You agreed to meet certain needs of the Navy, and now you've had a change of heart. While I sympathize with you emotionally, from a practical standpoint I simply can't agree with your outrage at the Navy. They are only reacting to a modification in contract. Try to take the emotional stuff out of it (I know that's really hard), and look at it from a business point of view. Or, look at it from the professional sports view: you're a great ballplayer, and you've got a good contract with the team you want to play for, but something has come up and now you want to renegotiate your contract. The team can't meet your desires and options you out to get picked up by another team who wants you. Nobody else is willing to cover your contract, so the team has to get as much out of you as they can (because they're responsible to the fans), so they use you wherever and whenever they need you.

After reading these posts I am glad and a bit disturbed to see others with similar experiences and opinions. As a writer I intend on writing an article the subject of the military's attitude toward pregnant service members. I am posting my e-mail so that those with stories can leave me an e-mail address so that I may contact you for an interview. It's lgthorson@nehc.med.navy.mil if you care to share your story.

My story: I am a 38 year old physician who came into the Navy in 1988 already a lisenced physician. I am STILL paying on student loans. After eight and a half years of service I applied for a two year residency in Preventive Medicine. During that first year I met a wonderful man and we married and decided to start a family. The only problems was;

2. My husband is a Swedish national and we are planning on living in Stockholm (I dont make near the money in the Navy not to mention all the discrimination I have put up with in tha past 10 years to warrent staying).

As soon as I saw my life's path turn completely I quit the residency program. In turn I incurred 2 years for the one year of training I completed. My husband and I offered to PAY BACK the $30,000 tuition as this 2 year seperation would require that I be a full time working single mother for over a year. I was turned down. Think about it. When I want to see my husband its $600 AT LEAST a shot. Not only that but the attitude that I encountered while fighting the fight was patronizing. I was accused of getting pregnant to get out, of trying to buy my way out (yeah so what). I was told that I was going to be taught a lesson. I was lied to. As a half trained board ineligible Preventive Medcine officer I was sent to a duty station to fill a Preventive Medicine billet as "the Prev Med" community was undermanned AT the same time, a fully trained (at Harvard at the Navy's expense) board eligible collegue of mine (male) was given flag endorsement for the astronaut program. Essentially the Navy is holding me responsible for filling manpower shortages of a specialty in which I do not belong not to mention I can't even draw specialty pay. AS I fought I was sabotaged every step of the way by my program director.

I have retained the same attorney that represented the helo pilot that wanted time off for breast-feeding (she got out on an honorable discharge). If forced to stay in you can count on seeing me on Dateline as I will not hand my child over to another to raise and I WILL breast-feed. This is what I get after 10 years in the Navy.

Posted: 6 Mar 98: In response to the 17 Apr 97 Post "If you can't stand the heat"

I have sucked it up. Whenever the Navy has said jump I have done it...literally. I have gone through Navy dive school. I have dropped everything to go on deployment when asked. I put up with 3 deployments with my first husband also active duty. I have postponed childbearing until the age of 38 for my career. Now that I am pregnant and my personal situation requires that I get out (and my request has been turned down) and I resent being accused of getting pregnant to get out (I am 38 and have no kids) and I resent the judgements of those that haven't been in this situation. My request to leave was I thought the honorable thing to do as I know no longer intend on giving 100%. My priorities have changed. I have given the Navy 10 years of professionalism and when it comes time to be treated as a professional in return I am treated as a 14 year old adolescent.

You know all those pregnancies prior to deployment? Well people if you measured the pregnancy rate AFTER deployment I bet you would see a raise in the rate. Think about it... what do couples do prior to and after a deployment. There may have been a few women getting pregnant to get out but that's a few and there will always be those who abuse a system. It has also given those in power (often white males with wives at home raising their children) an excuse to punish pregnant service members. I am served my country well and am not ashamed to be a women including fighting for my rights as a soldier and mother.

Well, now, everybody sit down cuz I am going to give my opinion on this subject. I am old - 64. I served from 1951 to 1972. Recently, I read something that mentioned maternity uniforms and nearly fainted. When I was in the service, if someone got pregnant, either married or not, they had to leave the service. The same held true if you wanted to join and you already had children. If you wanted to join you had to sign the care of your children to a guardian. Men have to do the same if they are a single parent and they are ordered to deploy.

There is no place in the service, any of them, for women with children to raise. As stated in other posts on this subject, pregnant women are not required to do their regular duties which means someone else has to do them. They would probably be off of their duties for a year BUT having a child doesn't just include a maternity leave (I can't believe I just typed that in conjunction with the military) but it is a full time job for 18 years until the child is on his/her own.

So, have a ball and get upset. These are my opinions and no one that has posted to this board or anyone who may post to this board will change my mind. Sorry 'bout that. -- Mary

I agree that you've had crummy examples at your current duty station. I'm curious, at how many duty stations have you served? Your post leads me to believe that you haven't had too many contacts with female servicemembers. I know in my eight years of service (with 2 small children) and 3 going on 4 different assignments that I have met many more hard-charging female super troopers or at least average soldiers than I have bad apples. I have to wonder how you would handle the issue of going to sick call. I'm sure you've run into at least a couple of profile riding dirtbags (male and female) whose second home is sick call. Would you also deny a soldier the right to go to sick call just because 3 dirtbags have abused this right? I am also interested to know how 3 equates to a LOT. In your unit it was 75% whereas in mine 3 equates to roughly 8%. If you can outline a better system than the one in place now, feel free to share. I can't think of a system that doesn't involve 20 times more paperwork/follow-up and/or doesn't involve someone's possibly biased assessment. Please share your ideas for a solution.

I am active duty AF, and my husband and I (also active duty AF) are trying to get pregnant again (suffered a miscarriage). The job I'm doing now has me leaning heavily towards getting out when I get pregnant. Between my TDYs and his, we've been apart over 200 days this year. I don't think this is a proper way to raise a child. Since my husband's TDY schedule isn't going to change, I think it's better for our family if I make the change to stay-at-home mom (at least until the child is school age).

Regarding the woman who worked at Aberdeen in the mid-70's and helped us gain rights we didn't have before: You are absolutely, one hundred percent right! I joined the Navy in 1977 and was still subject to a lot of "old navy" traditions and practices by dinosaurs who were just waiting to retire and/or die off. Face it, guys- some of you were real jerks. The major strides made by women in the military seemed to coincide with the all-volunteer force, so lots of people had personal agendas they felt the military would help them meet (school, training, job for a few years, etc).

I will not deny that some women thought the military would be a great place to meet guys (how's that for a no-brainer!). Back then women were given the option to stay in or get out if pregnant. Most chose to get out (the 70's weren't as progressive as we think). The ones who stayed in had a hard road ahead of them, and yes, they did make life infinitely easier for those of us who would follow. My shipmates in the late 70's didn't even have maternity uniforms- the "uniform" was a white shirt or hospital tech jacket and dark pants. Very professional looking. When I had my children (1984, 1985, 1989 and 1994) I saw with each pregnancy how far we have come in the Navy. However, it is important to note that there was at least one old dinosaur at each duty station who refused to let me perform my job professionally.

When my first child was three months old, I was chosen to be part of a training mission which deployed for an unknown time. I was a single parent and it was not my time to be selected for a mission (I was about seven females down the list). My leading chief felt it would be "good for me" and ensured I was part of the team. Could I fight it? No. Did I deploy? Yes, with the support of some wonderful friends who agreed to watch my infant while I was gone. With my second pregnancy, I was placed on "hurricane watch" at the clinic I was assigned to, two weeks from due date. I had just completed a long-term training job and again was not due for extra responsibilities. In fact, I was on the "snow and extreme cold" team. The chief tried to tell me he was concerned about my health and wanted to be sure I was able to get to a medical facility if I needed, since I was in my last two weeks. Bull. If he was that concerned, he could have assigned me to the hospital, as were all the other females at outlying clinics who were within 4 weeks of due date. My third and fourth pregnancies went relatively easy, with little or no problems from leading chiefs or Div-O's. I don't know if that was because I was senior enough to stand up for myself of if the more senior people were accepting pregnancy as a normal fact of life. Regardless, I owe a lot to the women who were strong enough to pave the road for us in the early and mid-70's. I can only imagine the things you did, and I for one truly appreciate it. Your efforts and sacrifice made it possible for me to complete a successful 20 year career, married to another active duty member, and have four children along the way. Gee, almost sounds like a normal life! Thanks, ladies. If there's ever anything I can do for you, let me know. My e-mail is lombardi@surfline.ne.jp. I owe you one (or four?).

You don't think the military is a college loan program, civilian job, etc? Check the TV commercials, that's all recruiters talk about. You can't expect anyone to know how they might feel about motherhood until they're mothers. When I became pregnant and was offered the opportunity to get out, I realized that there is no right answer...either you stay in and your child makes the sacrifices, or you get out and people accuse you of getting pregnant on purpose. This isn't the old days when people were drafted into the military, these days people are turned down. You have to have a high school diploma, no spouse, no children, etc. The military is picky...there's an abundance of candidates. No one is irreplaceable, except A MOTHER.

Boy do I have a good one! A female senior airman in my squadron was accepted into an AFROTC scholarship. Many senior NCO's and Officers assisted her in receiving this scholarship by writing letters of recommendation and helping her apply. She was set to leave in several months when her husband was given a remote assignment with a follow-on to the base where she would be doing her ROTC training. A few months before leaving she decided that she could not go without seeing her husband for a year, since she would not be able to visit him while in school. She deliberately got pregnant to get out of the scholarship and then used the pregnancy 'out' option. The worst thing is that she didn't tell anybody in the office that she turned down the scholarship everyone had worked so hard to help her get. At her going away party for the office it was understood that she was leaving to go to ROTC and not until later was the word spread that she had deliberately gotten pregnant to get out of the Air Force. I hear she is working part-time in a department store now!!!!

In response to a posting on 15 August 97, I MUST disagree with the author--there are a LOT of women who get pregnant in the military to get out of their responsibilities.

In my experience at my current duty station (an active duty AFB), 2 out of the 4 women in my unit got pregnant to get out of deployments: one to Korea, the other got orders to Japan; neither of which wanted to go. Both girls got pregnant to be dismissed from their PCS responsibilities. And BOTH were very verbal about it--actually advertised it.

Therefore, out of my unit, HALF of the females assigned have used pregnancy to "get out" of deployments/responsibilities. (In as much as having a kid is itself an 18 to 20 year sentence, to say nothing of nine months out of commission to a painful end, I'm amazed she would consider this an alternative to a crumby little Korea assignment, Somebody's stupid). In both cases, their actions DESTROYED the morale of my unit.

Additionally, both were given the option for an "early out," and both turned it down. One of the girls actually got pregnant TWICE to get out of TWO CONSECUTIVE assignments overseas. By the time she returned from maternity leave the second time around, she had less than a year left in the service, and therefore, not enough retainability to be PCS'ed overseas. Therefore, not only did she get all her medical care (for the childbirth) for free, and at the tax-payers' expense, she also never had to fulfil her military commitment--to be deployable, which is what the taxpayers pay us for.

By the way, interesting enough, the 3rd female in my unit was 'removed' early from the military, under charges of adultery and unprofessional relationships with officers. 3 out of 4 females...a 75% non-success rate.

It's been many years since I was in the service. One of my jobs while I was at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD Was as a Race Relations/Equal Opportunity Instructor.

I was there when we processed the very first WAC to stay in the military and have a baby in 1973-74. It was a hard battle and we won it for the rights of women in the military.

The military had always held that a woman could not hold allegiance to the military and to a child but if a man in the service had children and lost his wife he did not have to leave the military.

We worked hard and long for this right to have children and stay in the service and I can't help being put off by the mail I have read. Some of you really don't know what benefits you have that others have won for you.

I was commissioned as an officer and still under my obligation from college when I became unexpectedly pregnant (I am married to another service member). I was counseled as to my options. I opted to apply for resignation. I received the denial to my request one week after my son was born. I was extremely fortunate to qualify for a voluntary early release when my son was 8 months old. Those eight months were difficult in spite of a very compassionate commander. Now I serve in the National Guard (mandatory under my VERP). I can reconcile handing my son over to caregivers if a situation large enough to merit activation of my unit occurs. I could not reconcile leaving my son with caregivers at least 12 hours a day in order to serve in a peacetime position. I signed my contract six years before my pregnancy. As an 18 year old, directly out of high school, I had no idea I would be married, much less pregnant, in six years. So many factors account for pregnancy in the military--I think it is a grave error to try to generalize.

Response to August 15th posting. As the author of the "twisted and disgusting statistics", I should say in all fairness that these statistics do not include case histories or any info other than the fact that the servicemember separated prior to EAS for the reason of pregnancy. The implication that a lot of those were due to the service member having a desire to get out of their contract easily comes from my own experiences. I am afraid that I am not quite as idealistic as the author of the August 15 posting. When a lot of these same "young impressionable girls who just didn't take the right precautions but decided to keep the baby and raise it the best way she knew how" come back to their work sections or to the barracks and talk about how they did it just so they could get out it tends to make you look long and hard at the system that allows them to do that. As was mentioned, true there are lots of possibilities and as I have mentioned in previous postings, there are women with legitimate needs to separate pre EAS due to pregnancy or hardship caused by impending motherhood. Those women would have no problem getting out under the current order. It is my belief that the current position of the military on pregnancy and the option to leave the military is the right one. If the old system had not had so many "bad apples", then there would never have been a policy change.

I read the tit for tat going on and I agree with a little from both parties [refer to postings on 14 Aug, 22 Jul and 22 Jun 97]. I do think that women need to have the option to get out if they become pregnant because priorities do change with the addition of children. I don't see the point of making someone give an additional reason. If a soldier is asking to get out when she finds that she is pregnant then it's obvious she doesn't see the two as compatible and chose pregnancy and motherhood to a military career. It's no EASY way to get out. I find it interesting how the respondent of 14 Aug manipulated the statistics to support her view. This person claimed that women were getting pregnant simply to get out of their obligations. This individual also supports this supposition with a fact..."Almost 20% of female first termers got out due to pregnancy." There is nothing that says this is a direct correlation. This person is trying to imply that majority of women who get out of the military due to pregnancy are doing it simply to avoid fulfilling their contractual obligation. Please do not belittle women in this manner. Ask yourself, how many of these were young impressionable girls who just didn't take the right precautions but decided to keep the baby and raise it the best way she knew how? Ask yourself, how many of these women were raped and decided to get out to have the baby and avoid some humiliation? How many simply love children, thought they could balance the two, job and child, and found out how wrong they were even before birth. There are too many possibilities and I'm disgusted that you've twisted the stats to "prove" something so obviously wrong. Another thought, how many women have had abortions just to stay in, or to go to that service school that would get them promoted, or to keep their command, or heck just to avoid that road bump in their careers? There are a few bad apples in every bunch and a few good ones who just make bad decisions. On the whole, I'd say that women have used this option to their best advantage which is often in the overall best interest of the military.

This message is in response to the latest article in Pregnancy in the Military. My posting was the one on June 22. The woman mentioned that I was insensitive to the other military women who are not as fortunate as I am in having friends or family available or close by to watch their kids. That statement could not be further from the truth. The way that I form these relationships with other women is because I seek out other women in my units who are in the same situation as I am.

Most of the people whom I can depend on for help also depend on me to be able to do the same for them should the need arise. It works both ways. Maybe you should try something like this instead of just complaining about the lack of support available to you. Both my husband and myself are from the East Coast and are serving on the West Coast at this time. My family is no where near. My husband is doing a tour as a Drill Instructor. For all intents and purposes, all the responsibilities of child care and running our home are falling on me since he is not available. There are quite a few support groups on the base that lots of active duty women don't take advantage of or don't know about. 90 percent of the women whom I rely on to cover for me in a tight spot are people that I met in either the Enlisted Wives Club or the New Parent Support Group sponsored by the Family Service Center on base. I know that these clubs are not limited to the Marine Corps, so they are available for all military women to take part in. As for the statement concerning being a civilian and being paid for overtime and all that, that depends on whether you are an hourly employee or a salaried employee. I am sure that I don't need to explain that salaried employees receive no compensation for "overtime". As service members, we are considered salaried employees. When we get all those federal holidays off and 72 or 96 hour liberty we still get paid for that time even though we aren't at work at all. Finally, as I said previously, getting out is not the best solution in a lot of cases. In some cases, it might well be the best thing to do. The military has provided for that. As of May of this year which was when I submitted my last statement of pregnancy to my command, women can still get out if their situation warrants it. The difference between the old order and the new order is that now, getting out is not an automatic thing. You now cannot get out just because you are pregnant and want to. You have to be able to justify to the military why you cannot still fulfill the terms of your contract with a child. The reason they did this is because many women who decided for one reason or another that they did not want to be in the military were getting pregnant just so they could be released from their contract. This is not just supposition on my part. I once worked at a recruiting district headquarters where they tracked 1st term attrition among women. Almost 20% of all female first termers were getting out due to pregnancy. It was being considered an easy way to be released with no questions asked. Some of those women may well have messed it up for the ones with a legitimate need to separate. So, fellow female service member, while I in fact do understand where you are coming from, do not expect me to get all sentimental over your saying how women bearing children is a God given right. NO ONE HAS EVER QUESTIONED THAT! By not making separation due to pregnancy a guarantee anymore, the military is simply attempting to ensure that you uphold your part of the agreement you made when you signed the contract.

Posted: 22 Jul 97: In response to the 15 Jul 97 posting "Pregnancy in the Military"

In response to the posting on 15 July, I can not believe another can say that woman are lazy because they want to get out of the military when they are pregnant because they feel they can not devote all their time to their children. To me that is just plain insensitive. I am an active duty woman married to an active duty member and me and my husband are stationed together so basically I am a single parent and you know what? If I could go back and get out when I was pregnant I would. You want to know why. I am not as 'fortunate' as you. I have no close friends that I can drop my son off to when I have to into work before the daycare opens and I have no one to pick him up if I have to work late. My mother is no longer alive so I have no family that I can just drop him off to when I have to go an extended deployment. The difference between being a civilian is that they get paid for all the overtime that they do, we don't. I don't get reimbursed when I have to fly halfway across the United States to take my son to someone who can keep while we are deployed. As a mother and a woman you should have some understanding to what others go through that are not as fortunate as you. Have you ever talked to other woman in your unit about what they go through? Maybe if it was someone you knew and cared for your understanding of the situation would be a little bit better. Once a child enters your life, priorities change. The commitment that I made to my son is a whole lot greater than the commitment I made to the military. Having children is a woman's god-given right and I believe that women who have children who don't want to be in the service should have that option to get out because I personally don't want to be in a foxhole with a woman that could care less

Currently I am on active duty and my husband and I are expecting our second child. We are an active duty couple and have had our share of having to juggle childcare with deployments, duty and annual training. However, in our experience, it has not been something that was just impossible to do.

Perhaps we are just fortunate in that we have had somewhat flexible commands. But there has never been a situation where neither of us could step up to fill in for the deployed parent or the parent gone TAD or to the field or whatever.

In a lot of cases, I do not think that getting out of the military is the best solution either. I think that a lot of those women are just lazy and think it will be easier to juggle family and career as a civilian. The only way to guarantee you will always be there for your children and to not ever have any conflicts between work and family is to not be a working mom. Period. Whether in or out of the military. My sister (a civilian) works for the Red Cross. Her husband works for the Post Office. They have 2 children. Their daycare situation is a nightmare to me because of their jobs! Sometimes, one or the other will be on the night shift, or in a couple of cases, they both were on the night shift! My sister does a moderate amount of travel. When she travels, generally my nephews have to go to their grandparents because my brother in law has to be at work before any daycare facility in the area is open!

Their situation is not very much different than mine in that aspect. One thing that most working mothers have in common (be they in the military or out of it) is a strong support group. I have not seen that support group mentioned by any of the women. If you think that support group would not be needed if you were not in the military, you better think again. All parents need one. It is essential, even for mothers who don't work. What if you have an appointment or had car trouble and could not pick your child up from daycare or school on time? Who are you going to call? What if you are in an accident or have to have surgery that requires hospitalization for a brief time? What if you and your husband/boyfriend just want to spend some time together without the kids?
In the military the support group is just a little different. I have one person that I call when I have PT before my son's daycare facility opens. I drop him off at her house before I go to PT and she takes him to daycare. I have someone I can call if I am going to be working later than the daycare is open, and they can pick him up for me. If I have duty overnight on base, there is someone who can watch him overnight for me. We are fortunate in that we have never both been on a lengthy deployment at the same time. We have had small periods of time that overlapped a bit, but in those cases, grandparents or close friends were happy to help out.

I guess that the point I am trying to make is that as mothers, we have to be able to adapt to our particular situation. If you had a civilian job, would you quit if they wanted you to travel for 3 or 6 months and you could not see your family? That depends on your situation, right? What if that job is your only source of income, you don't have enough money saved up to see you through until you find another job, and you have 2 lives depending on you and your income for everything? If you were still getting paid so you could take care of their needs, would you not at least look for a way to make it work out? Or would you just reject it out of hand? Personally, I would at least look for a way to make them both happen. I think that is what a lot of military mothers need to do.

I am currently in the military (Army) and have been trying to get pregnant for the last 18 months. I have carefully considered the pros and cons of having a child while on active duty. However at this time my husband is not working and would provide day care and my next duty station is not one that will be deployed. I have made the choice to stay in until my commitment is up. However, I don't think it is anyone's right to tell people what they should or shouldn't do about getting out because of a pregnancy. It is bad enough that as soldiers, sailors and airmen we give up a lot of different personal, ethical and moral freedoms, it is not right in my opinion to tell someone that they should not take advantage of a choice that they may not have had 30 years ago. Some people tend only to think of the mission of the military in too narrow a term and not including the women's way of thinking, or rather not thinking like mothers, sisters and women and just flat out saying "God and Country".It is excluding our human right to want to be a part of raising our children. Conformity in thinking is not the way to prove women can do just as well as men, we need to think like women and be proud that we are women. After all, aren't women smarter? haha! just kidding....

The thing that disturbs me most about the comments beforehand is that we women are starting to sound just like all the good old boys and saying to ourselves and our sisters to suck it up and drive on....well I think there is a better solution.

Swift and Deadly! Aviation!

There is no trouble having kids like that acquired by a military woman, all thru her pregnancy, delivery and raising the child from birth. Why not for the good of the young female citizen simply add to the enlistment contract the agreement that the member will not become pregnant during her term of service and if pregnancy comes by chance, she will immediately request /accept honorable discharge from the service with no special privileges given on discharge.

When you consider the trials and tribulations of the service woman trying to juggle childcare with inevitable conflicts with duty, plus the unfairness today against the Service man who is not given the special service and attention as given the pregnant woman, the Military should try and eliminate the pregnant woman from active duty. Many of the women posting complaints about the pregnancy and child caring pressures and pain and many are now advising young civilian females not to get in. The pain ain't worth it!

I served in the Navy from 1990 to 1992. Just two years short of a four year enlistment. The reason I got out, obviously, is because I chose to be a mother instead of a sailor. That was probably the hardest choice I ever had to make. I loved being a sailor and I loved being a part of an extended family on the ship. I was a 4.0 sailor and had the respect of my male counterparts for the job I was doing. I didn't get pregnant to get out. I was trying to be responsible by using the proper contraceptives (the pill), but unfortunately it isn't fool-proof. I read in an earlier posting [17 Apr 97, "If You Can't Stand the Heat...] that all women should be injected with Depo-Prevara. I was on Depo after getting out of the Navy and had I been on it while on a ship on a six month deployment, continually out to sea in the Persian Gulf (all of which I did), I probably would have slit my wrists. Depo enhances feelings of depression (read the small print) which most women are prone to anyway. I do not think this is a good answer. However, being responsible is a very good point. I've also had to live with the consequences of this decision every day. The first is having the awesome responsibility of raising a child. It's very much a joy, but also very hard. I was not aware of how hard a job it is. I am also not entitled to my G.I. Bill that I put $1200 into due to not meeting minimum enlistment time served. So, there is always a price to be paid for either decision, whether it's to stay in or get out. I think this is an option that needs to stay. There will always be some other soldier or sailor to take your place should you get out. However, this child will only have one mother and the two should not be separated. I was told I would have to sign my child over to someone else if I stayed in. I would rather live with being separated from the military than being separated from my child.

After 16 years of active duty in a male dominated rating I have seen, heard and lived the wide range of "emotions and opinions" concerning the pregnancy issue. I have 4 children ranging in age from 18 to 5, 3 of which were born on active duty. I am in an aviation rate that until recently did not require me to serve on a ship, so I never had to leave a command or position because of my pregnancy. Of course there were times when I could no longer manage to climb to the tops of Aircraft and do the balance beam act due to my condition but believe me there were always other jobs I could do that had to be done! I have experienced the purest, unhidden hatred of men and women I have served with and the underlying contempt of those not so bold. I have survived but as I have matured I ask myself daily why it was necessary to bite my tongue and endure the stupidity of others "for the mission". Having children is a natural part of being a woman, a blessing from God himself and certainly not a crime. The military is a hard place to be a mother and I wouldn't recommend it to my friends. The normally occurring stresses of parenthood are enough without the added stress being made to feel that you are somehow less valuable as a person because you choose to have a life beyond the military. I was lucky (?) enough not to have the additional stress of having to leave my children behind for shipboard duty until now. As I said I have been here for 16 years. I am within reach of retirement so it is hard to just "get out" empty handed. But if I had to do it again I wouldn't. The military wants your whole life and anything that interferes with that is going to be a struggle. The pay is little compensation for what you are expected to give in return. And by the time you are looking at your life from the aft end it is too late to go back and reclaim it. It is also to late to make up for all the lost time with your children. The Navy at least would not need to down size if all new recruits went directly to ships. I know it wouldn't have taken me this long to realize that there is more to life than this and that I could "be all that I could be" somewhere else! I think that allowing women to get out due to pregnancy should remain an option and that it should be expressed as the best option to any young female who doesn't wish to leave that new persons life in the hands of others weeks and months on end.

Oh come on everyone! Human beings, both male and female are so critical and judgmental of others, it is our instinctive defensive nature. Pregnancy is a part of life and a beautiful experience for most women, whether planned or unplanned. God will judge those that take birthing a child as a means to convenience themselves for their own benefit and not for the love of having the child. It is impossible for the military, as with any organization or program, to keep individuals from abusing the system. Some people have strong convictions and morals, others do not. Let's face it that is life, that is our culture, that is the society we live, and that's our instinctive behavior. The difference is defined by those who can't live with themselves because of such behavior (as having a child just to get out of the military early or not deploying) and those than can live with their decision (right or wrong). I would never regret having my children and leaving after many years in the Army but I take offense to anyone stereotyping my reasons for doing so. I think it is very narrow minded and ignorant of people to assume such stereotypes. I don't think the majority of people, male or female join the military [with] pre-calculated intentions on getting out. Everyone's priorities change over the years, some sooner than others and some for honorable reasons and others for selfish needs. In any case, the leadership needs to be sensitive to this issue, put it in perspective, and understand each individual situation for what it is and then take appropriate action. Anymore insinuation than that is what is usually defined as preconceived prejudice!

I spent 9 years in the military and from the time I came in until the time I left in April 1996, there was always someone with an opinion about women in the military, especially pregnant ones. During my tenure I had three children, the first two on active duty and third being part of the reason I finally left active duty. I do not regret being on active duty nor having my children, unfortunately, Ladies, there are still strong prejudices out there, sexism being at the forefront. I loved my job in the medical service corps and worked for some great people but I also endured very poor leadership at times, the last being during my third pregnancy. Actually it was my fourth pregnancy because my third resulted in a miscarriage three months before, during a field exercise in Germany (build up to Bosnia). I'll always remember what the commander of my unit said to me as he replaced me in the field "Gee, what a hell of a way to get out of a deployment". Talk about insensitivity from a Commander, and one that was hiking in the Czech Alps faking a knee injury just to get out of the deployment himself. The Army is being forced, more and more these days, to explain the actions of their leadership and as the Army digs more and more I think they are going to find that some of those in leadership have gotten very comfortable at taking advantage of their command authority. Too many good soldiers leave because of such issues as pregnancy and our military does not have the backbone of good leadership anymore. The downsizing has left it impossible for many to have a family and be a soldier because the leadership is inconsistent with carrying out policy. There are too many little Napoleons out there bending the rules for their own benefit at the expense of others. Pregnancy is a part of life, and as I told my Commander "How dare you stand here with your authority and say that to me, I have always done my duty (deployed three times pregnant), which is more than I can say about you. Give me a break, you think I would take on the responsibility of having a child and raising it for 18 years just to get out of a deployment, you have got to be kidding." Currently, he is under a 15-6 investigation for that and alot of other misuse of his command authority.

THERE IS LIFE AFTER THE MILITARY AND ONCE YOU ARE OUT YOU WONDER WHY YOU EVER PUT UP WITH IT.

I am a prior Navy service female from the old school (1971), where if you were pregnant... they gave you a HD (Honorable Discharge) and put you out. Originally, I thought allowing woman in uniform to have the option of staying in or getting out would be wonderful... now, years later, I have my doubts. Almost every woman in uniform I see is pregnant! And just for the record... I live just outside of a Naval Station and work on one, married military and retired military.

The money the military spends in moving a female off of a ship or overseas duty and on to shore duty while in this condition is expensive, and allows the woman a luxury that her fellow sailor does not have. It also screws up the rotation of shore duty/sea duty time for all.

If you are thinking of joining, remember, you're not there to have the military serve you, you are taking an oath to defend your country. The military is not a travel agency, a college loan opportunity or a civilian job, it is a sacrifice and an honor to serve, but the military must come before personal comfort in order to protect our freedom. If you can't commit to that... don't raise your right hand.

I was a military couple when I got pregnant and really wasn't ready for the great variety of opinions on my "condition." Many felt as if it was just a way to get out of work. OR another way to be lazy. I have 2 children and both were born while I was on active duty. I was stationed in DC and in California. I cannot believe the difference. It seemed that I was told that I was only using pregnancy to get out of work and for the gazillonth time had to prove that I could work as well as the men, after all they didn't get the privilege of getting pregnant favors. I even got more problems from the women than from the men. The women who had had children while in before me felt that I was just being lazy. I worked all day every day even on the day I went into labor.

It was the exact opposite at the next duty station where I was at least given the benefit of the doubt. BUT what a pain, I was treated as such a delicate thing then.

I always tried to treat those who I commanded that happened to be pregnancy with decency, and as the human beings they where. Just as every person is different every pregnancy is different. As with everything in my life I enjoyed the challenge. Military Life was difficult, but I find that now as a stay at home veteran mom, I have a tougher job than anything I faced in the military. I enjoy this challenge of guiding the next generation into the future. I only hope that I teach my son to appreciate the difference in all people and my daughter that the sky is the limit as long as you are willing to face the challenges life throws.

I am so tired of hearing how a woman who uses this option somehow makes it tougher for the rest of us to "prove" ourselves. I have been pregnant twice on active duty. I felt the need to "prove" myself only when I first became pregnant with my first child. I felt the need to "prove" myself when it came to pulling my share of the load and that was because so many other females (pregnant and not-pregnant) wouldn't do their share. Once I demonstrated that I would do all I could within the limits of my profile, I had no trouble. Notice, however, that I said I felt the need to prove myself. That feeling comes from within. No one else's actions cause you to need to prove yourself. Second, I don't mind having to work just a little bit harder and shine a little brighter because it keeps me motivated and striving for more. Look on the bright side of the issue and then suck it up and drive on.

WOW, You have had some really strong opinions on this since I last contributed. I am for having the option. However, I think men should be given a similar option regarding family. It's only fair. If being pregnant has caused health risks for the woman and the child the woman should get out and the option should be there but too many abuse it, I have seen it. Maybe more regulation on the regulation is in order. Stricter reasons for requesting out that kind of thing. However, a soldier who doesn't want to be in the service hurts other soldiers. Maybe, recruiters should have stricter requirements for enlisting? I think allot of the woman that request this are acting impulsive and may regret it later that they left. Maybe not, I was not one of them. I am Army, a prior service female and I can tell you more times than not young females with little rank used this ploy to get out giving me a harder time at proving myself. Of course there are males who use sick call like crazy and use the medical boards to get an early out with pay. Not all males but some, just like the females. The thing here is to not judge the minority by the majority who abuse this option.

In response to this topic I must add my voice to all those that said that giving women the option to leave the military due to pregnancy is a poor method of retention. It only increases negative feelings on the part of men, many of whom are already looking for something to widen the gap further. They are LOOKING to see just one of us buckle or wuss out in a high pressure situation.

I will give you that it is better to get these people out who would take such measures to separate from the military or worse abandon their units in a crisis situation. WEAK!! During Operation Desert Storm we all heard of those women who were pregnant AFTER deployment and had to be sent home. Quite frankly they disgust me and should have been dishonorably discharged. For women everywhere in the military that have to bust their butts to be taken seriously, respected for their PROFESSIONALISM and manage promotion without the obvious combat experience that pushes men to the tops of those cutthroat lists I would like to say "What are you DOING?!! If you want to get your groove on that's your RIGHT but it is also your RESPONSIBILITY." If I ever had a woman under my command that I believed purposely got herself in that situation during a deployment she would be seeing a court martial in her horizon if I could swing it.

IF women are to be sent out in hot zones or potentially dangerous areas they should be screened and if it will not pose a health problem then they should be injected with Depo-Provera. This drug has been on the market and prevents pregnancy for 3 months at a time. No excuses. We are all adults and know the possibility of things happening an any situation however business is business. When there is a task that we are assigned to do - THE MISSION COMES FIRST. If you can't dig it stay a civilian or wait until your tour is up like everybody else. SUCK IT UP LADIES!!

Semper Fi!!

With all due respect to those who feel otherwise, nothing any human being can attain to is more important than childbirth and childraising. These are our biological imperatives and guys can't do the former. Many women feel that they can balance the stresses of career and childbearing but I don't think that anyone should attempt to put themselves into the head of a pregnant woman. Yeah, yeah, mission first and all that, but aren't children ultimately at the core of ALL missions? Every PERSON has to make decisions, every day, about their priorities and priorities change. Can't we just give women who opt out the same respect that we want for our own decisions? As far as reimbursing the government for training; The training that most first term enlistees receive is nearly valueless in the economy. It is the experience provided by military service that's respected by employers. In most cases, military training unbacked by several years of on the job training and experience is useless.

Many were the times that I would have loved an easy out of the U.S. Navy, especially right before a major cruise. I was married during both of my cruises and I now have two children. I was going to have children anyway so instead of two people being heart-broken for 9 months at a time, I think we'd have just gotten pregnant earlier and gotten out of the service. I'm sure that I am not alone in this view and that is where the problem is. The military requires a commitment from its personnel and allowing one sex a way out is not fair or a responsible action to the taxpayers who
have financed that person's career so far. It lends itself to easy abuse by less than scrupulous people, i.e, go into the military, get expensive training, get pregnant, get out and get good paying civilian job!

It would seem the majority of folks lean toward retention of the military woman that has given birth rather than a honorable discharge to allow her to raise her family. Both sides of the equation have merit, that is for sure. The military is focused on mission accomplishment, first and foremost--service before self--and that includes planned or unplanned children. Here's a thought--if a woman decides that a family is more important than the commitment already made to the armed forces, should the woman be allowed to be discharged providing she re-imburses the department of defense for the (literally) thousands of dollars the government (read--you the taxpayer) have spent in training the individual?

I am shocked at the number of people who are so outraged at the women who use the option to get out of the military when they discover that they are pregnant. I understand the outrage when someone abuses the system. It does make it harder to "make it" as a female in the military after a woman abuses the system because someone will use that behavior as the ruler by which to measure all women. However, I doubt that this option is being abused that much and the ones that do abuse it are more sorry for it later. We should feel sorry for anyone who gets pregnant to get out or uses that reason as an excuse. They are selling themselves short!!! Anyone who carefully weighs the pros and cons and decides to use that option has my full support. An informed well thought out choice like that deserves support and that's why that option is there. Would anyone really want someone on active duty who really didn't want to be there? Remember a soldier who doesn't want to be a soldier hurts us all far worse than someone who realizes it and gets out.

I am a military woman that got pregnant and I was offered the option to get out and I believe that it is a very useful option to offer. When you enlist in the Armed Services you are expected to dedicate your life to that service that you chose. Once a woman is pregnant she has to make a choice because you are expected to put the military service in front of your child and for some women, they cannot do that. For me it was a hard decision to make because I am a single parent. Some people complain about that option because they say that people abuse the system but there is always going to be a small number that abuse anything that is given for a good purpose. Even those people who are complaining about other people abusing the system have done something in their military career that is against regulations. Unless you are a woman in the services and have been pregnant before and had to make that decision then I believe you have no room to make judgment because contrary to popular belief just because you are young and pregnant and you get out of the service it is not true that you will be on welfare. Every woman has a right to make the decision about their life. Having a child is a big milestone in a woman's life and no one can tell her where she should raise her child. My commitment is to the child I brought into this world and not to the military first. Some women may make a different choice than what I made but it's their option. That's why everyone has the right to choose. No one should judge another for what they do in their own life when it doesn't affect them.

I am a prior service female. No woman should be granted leave of the military for pregnancy unless her physical health is in danger or she becomes physically or mentally unable to serve her country. In the old days of the military, women leaving for a pregnancy was understood because there weren't many options for care, uniforms, etc. Now there is no excuse. If you are thinking of joining, remember, you're not there to have the military serve you, you are taking an oath to defend your country against all enemies, foreign and domestic, etc. etc. The military is not a travel agency, a college loan opportunity or a civilian job, it is a sacrifice and an honor to serve, but the military must come before personal comfort in order to protect our freedom. That's why things don't always go the way we want when we want leave and cannot get it, when we want to go to a particular assignment and the military needs you elsewhere, etc. The mission comes first! God Bless America!

Unfortunately, I have seen many young enlisted women, or should I say "girls" abuse the system by getting pregnant just to be discharged from the service. I feel sorry for the girls and their resulting children, that engage in this type of behavior. Maybe if the Military did not have this option of an early release many of these no job skills, welfare candidates "girls" could have a chance to make something of themselves, and make a difference while serving their country.

I am sorry! I am prior service. Was in an almost all male Engineer company. I have 3 children & my husband is still in. I never thought of using my female qualities to use as an excuse to quit my duties working for the US Army and fulfilling my contract. However, I was acquainted with a lot of female soldiers that did. They get talked about bad by male soldiers! Some females use the system as males do! And some have legitimate excuses! I didn't use anybody! I served my country well & am proud, but, I am just one in a few and the majority speak in this male dominated military. For future reference if you are a female and plan to join think hard! You have to love this xxxx to be good and you give other hard working females a bad reputation when you use your gender to get out of duties. When you do that you make it harder for soldiers like me to prove myself as a female and capable! THINK! Before u join!

Opinion Section

"Pregnancy in the Military"